Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

This bill is actually heavily criticized in germany, for example by the Freifunk initiative: http://freifunkstattangst.de/2015/06/16/neuer-tmg-entwurf-zu... (german)

The bill requires network operators to make "reasonable effort to secure the network against unauthorized access" and to "allow access only to users that have agreed not to violate the law during their use" of the network.

The bill also takes service providers into liability if they offer "gefahrgeeignete Dienste" (I have no idea how that accurately translates to english).

Heise has more information in german: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Bundesregierung-besch...




I think "gefahrgeeignete Dienste" could be translated as "services with potential for dangerous misuse", no?


Like serving a knife and a fork?


Or a room containing flammable gasses like Oxygen.


> The bill requires network operators to make "reasonable effort to secure the network against unauthorized access" and to "allow access only to users that have agreed not to violate the law during their use" of the network.

Can you elaborate on why this is bad?


Well, for one, it still effectively prohibits public wifi...


Would a bad person actually refuse to agree with not breaking the law? A 'bad' person already has a willingness to not follow the rules, so how would an agreement matter?


I think the point is to clearly shift the moral hazard away from the provider to the user. The user may not uphold the agreement, but then they are clearly the morally wrong party.


Why not simply give the moral hazard to the user by default? If I give someone a pen and paper and they use it to write a letter ordering a terrorist attack, am I morally responsible for the attack simply because I didn't get them to agree to use it lawfully?


> Why not simply give the moral hazard to the user by default?

I agree, but in this case the German law has very clearly decided that this is not the default. And so this new law is seeking to address that.


Isn't there some meta rule about the first world countries law systems (us excluded) that the only crimes you are responsible for are the ones you personally commited?


Few things: Firstly, this is about civil cases, not crimes. Secondly, the wrongdoing here is allowing someone else to use your internet connection to perform illegal actions, not those actions themselves. Thirdly, in any law system I can think of there are crimes you can commit by literally doing nothing (neglect). For example, in Germany it's a crime to know about a planned murder and not do anything about it.


Joint enterprise would be one example of someone being responsible for a crime they did not commit.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: