> They were just two members of a robust philosophical tradition, Russian cosmism, whose influence can still be seen today in the transhumanist movement.
Source? I don't see any influence at all. When I read older transhumanist works like _Great Mambo Chicken_, Ettinger's _Man into Superman_, or even older than that like _The World, The Flesh, and the Devil_, or I read histories of the movement like Stambler's recent _History of Life Extensionism in the 20th Century_, I see absolutely no influence on Western transhumanism from Russians except indirectly through Cold War realities. Further, when I read the occasional summary or publication that filters through the language barrier about current Russian stuff like the 2045 Initiative, it feels like it's coming from a totally separate and disconnected world (for better or worse).
That there are similarities is not much of a proof: the possibilities of technology and science are the same everywhere, and so responses will likewise be similar. You don't have to have studied deeply in the Kosmism canon to think that it would be good if we didn't age, sicken, and die suffering horribly and that science might be able to do something about that...
The only attempt I've seen to actually show real links is Stross's lame blog post on it, which amounts to 'this is a little like that, this came before, therefore, this caused that' and is nothing more than a thinly-disguised 'post hoc ergo propter hoc'.
There is a certain special irony in debating the genealogy of an idea within a thread about Russian cosmism, given Vernadsky's belief in the noosphere.
Regardless, I didn't mean to imply that the modern transhumanist movement is merely an outgrowth of Russian cosmism. But the cosmist writings may be the earliest articulation of transhumanist values.
If someone finds a direct, linear connection between cosmism and transhumanism, I would love to hear about it. But I suspect that the same set of ideas has been developed independently multiple times.
Indeed, it would be problematic if they had only evolved within one nation, because that would imply that they were culturally contingent. If they are intrinsically sound, they should be available for discovery by diverse thinkers.
> Regardless, I didn't mean to imply that the modern transhumanist movement is merely an outgrowth of Russian cosmism. But the cosmist writings may be the earliest articulation of transhumanist values.
When people say "whose influence can still be seen today in the transhumanist movement", it seems reasonable to me to infer that they were indeed implying that if not an offshoot, there is still a lot of causal influence. If it was all a sheer coincidence, then 'influence' is a very odd word to use...
This does not seem like it should be controversial. Transhumanism is a direct outgrowth of Timothy Leary's 1970s "SMI^2LE" programme (Space Migration Increased Intelligence Life Extension), which in turn was directly influenced by L5 Society folks like Keith Henson and Gerald K. O'Neil. They, in turn, were directly influenced by Tsiolkovsky and other Cosmists. These influences were acknowledged by all parties involved.
> which in turn was directly influenced by L5 Society folks like Keith Henson and Gerald K. O'Neil. They, in turn, were directly influenced by Tsiolkovsky and other Cosmists. These influences were acknowledged by all parties involved.
Then it should be easy for you to show. I am fairly familiar with Henson and have read a number of his essays and emails from SL4 and Extropy days and I cannot recall a single instance showing that Tsiolkovsky had any particular influence asides from being, as I said, parallel developments. Eyes are a great idea, but that doesn't mean octopuses copied them from monkeys.
Source? I don't see any influence at all. When I read older transhumanist works like _Great Mambo Chicken_, Ettinger's _Man into Superman_, or even older than that like _The World, The Flesh, and the Devil_, or I read histories of the movement like Stambler's recent _History of Life Extensionism in the 20th Century_, I see absolutely no influence on Western transhumanism from Russians except indirectly through Cold War realities. Further, when I read the occasional summary or publication that filters through the language barrier about current Russian stuff like the 2045 Initiative, it feels like it's coming from a totally separate and disconnected world (for better or worse).
That there are similarities is not much of a proof: the possibilities of technology and science are the same everywhere, and so responses will likewise be similar. You don't have to have studied deeply in the Kosmism canon to think that it would be good if we didn't age, sicken, and die suffering horribly and that science might be able to do something about that...
The only attempt I've seen to actually show real links is Stross's lame blog post on it, which amounts to 'this is a little like that, this came before, therefore, this caused that' and is nothing more than a thinly-disguised 'post hoc ergo propter hoc'.