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It already happened several times. Twitter admitted to hiding tweets with hash tags like #wikileaks; #podestaemails... So I guess the USA isn't all that different, if you dismiss the propaganda. You just don't have the universal healthcare and you get to spend 10 times more on the military and NSA snooping.


They admitted to banning bots, which is what they did. If someone doesn't like the fact that bots inflated propaganda that they happened to believe in doesn't make it censorship.



That would stop Facebook from interfering in Russian elections.


Usonians are so brainwashed by "american exceptionalism" that they can't even see how out of control their military/industrial complex has become.


I'm not sure why you're worried about our military/industrial complex and informatics capabilities. I say this as an American: We're increasingly not a global power.

1. Our drone program is garbage, cheap chinese factories are giving $200-1000 solutions that are better than our $60000 solutions (edit: cost of explosives not included, but for lower yields it's way cheaper). Same for our logistics, it's dated and the civilian market has better for 1/100th the cost.

2. Our opsec is broken. Whoever's behind these attacks on the US's intelligence community is winning. For example, we know for a fact that Russia has been using a very similar tool outside embassies, but the fact that we know that is because actors has so much to gain by dumping it into the public sphere, politically. The US increasingly cannot "keep a secret".

3. Our industrial capabilities are falling behind. America's efforts of pursuing ultimate cost efficiency have ultimately outsourced the majority of the US's modern manufacturing capacity. This means at a national level we're at a demonstrably disadvantage to nations with much more of a connection to their private sector, with the classic example being China.

Worrying about America's military-industrial complex is reasonable if you're near a naval deployment because America still has an impressive supply of very powerful explosives. But beyond that... we're sort of getting our asses kicked and our government appears to be rapidly destabilizing. You can suggest this is from outside influence, and I think there's strong reason to believe that there is an ongoing attack. But it can't explain the entire phenomenon.

So I'm not sure what you're afraid of from us. Nothing in the WL page should be surprising. We've seen similar tools disclosed earlier this year. These tools are more sophisticated versions of attacks that have been ongoing for, gosh... I had to write a less awesome version of this tool as a demonstration I was ready to move up in rank in a security challenge forum, it was so easy. It's harder now, for sure, but...


If you don't think Europe has a military industrial complex then you aren't paying attention - check out the list of countries here (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Companies_by_arms_sales).

During the Arab Spring there were multiple reports of European surveillence technology being fundamental to the police state in the Middle East/Africa (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-40276568). Small arms made by H&K, Beretta, and FN etc are prevalent across the region. Advanced weapons like anti-aircraft systems also flood in from across the globe.

The UK, French, and Germans were also key supporters of Saddam Hussain during the Iran-Iraq War in the 80's and actively supported the WMD program there by supplying technology etc.

Every large power is involved in military manufacturing and seeks markets to sell too. Americans are no less ignorant to this than citizens in Europe, Russia, or Asia.


Europe having an out of control military industrial complex doesn't negate the fact that the US has an out of control military industrial complex as well.


I don’t know what an “in control” military-industrial complex looks like, but I don’t think the current situation is unique to the US by any means.


I don't either. My point is that both can have an out of control system at the same time


You have only subtly insulted the commenter without providing a rebuttal regarding why you believe he is wrong.


> Usonians

What this?


I've seen it occasionally used to refer to Americans, because technically speaking, any citizen of any country of North or South America is an "American", and yet citizens of the USA don't recognize this.

To many, the implicit assumption that USA strictly equals America and vice versa is just another artifact of the arrogance built into US culture.


Use of the term "American" to describe US citizens is quite common outside the US.

To me, the idea that this is somehow a manifestation of our cultural arrogance and not just a mundane example of the malleability of human language is just another artifact of how certain people really, really want to find more reasons to hate us.


Presumably it's a name for people from the US but I've never seen it before and it's not great.


It's the word or similar to the word for the USA in a few languages, like Esperanto ("Usono": the USA, "Usonano": a USA citizen, "Ameriko" already being used for the continent and "Amerikano" for people from that continent). It was a term introduced in the 1800s without a lot of success, then after its use in Esperanto it was mildly popularised by American architectural legend Frank Lloyd Wright, who embraced the term and described his work as "Usonian architecture" and wrote at length about "Usonian character."


WaPo is a CIA mouthpiece. So it's to be expected if they portray "The Intercept" as an unsafe place to leak to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofB1b3RMdhA&list=PLTpcK80ird...


This sort of conspiracy mongering is below the HN standard of discourse.

Amazon doesn't own WaPo, Jeff Bezos does. A $600 million 10 year contract for a private cloud is a tiny fraction of AWS revenue (some $15 billion per year), let alone overall Amazon revenue. It is in no way a sweetheart deal that would require Bezos bend over backwards, let alone undermine the integrity of the news organization for which he paid $250 million out of his own pocket.


Oh really? Am I being singled out? Or are you ready to call conspiracy mongers to everybody in this thread who "cast doubt" over WaPo allegiances?



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/09/fukushima-nucl...

Seriously? "Expensive but not impossible"?


There's a huge difference between cleaning up the surrounding landscape and dealing with the broken reactors themselves. Eventually we'll figure out how to fix those. Nothing an X-Prize contest or two can't help address if things get truly desperate.

I'd take a contaminated room any day over a whole planet slowly cooking itself to death.


>Nothing an X-Prize contest or two can't help address if things get truly desperate.

Yeah, because technology advances magically if you will it enough...


We have a number of commercial space-flight companies now and a dozen self-driving car platforms that work quite well. Neither of these really existed before their respective X-Prize type challenges.


Can we focus on renewables and stop trying to sell people hazardous waste that can last for millenia? You do realize that you can't actually guarantee what will happen in 10, 20... 50 years time. Earthquakes, Tsunamis, tornados, terrorist attacks, wars, neglect, malfunction, human error... How can you guarantee that a certain place is safe to store millions of tons of radioactive waste for thousands of years if we can't even guarantee what will happen tomorrow? We need to stop this nuclear madness!


Well, damming rivers turned out to be a bad idea in cases so (Washington State)[https://relay.nationalgeographic.com/proxy/distribution/publ...] is undoing them. Wind turbines require surmounting large technical hurdles with storing energy. Solar takes a lot of resources/space. Heck, in 50 years we might be in a dust bowl and solar doesn't even work.

Why would you suggest we prevent using all appropriate options at our disposal? Why not push for using a different type of fuel instead?

I didn't grow up during the nuclear scare times. Fukushima wasn't great, but it wasn't so horrific either. If it gets us off coal and natural gas then I'm down.


Fukushima isn't over, we don't know what it will have done in the next 50 years yet.


Estimates of excess deaths due to nuclear, counting chernobyl, are the lowest of any energy technology. This isn't even counting the part where no new nuclear reactor could possibly be as unsafe as Chernobyl or Fukushima in the same way that no modern car could be as unsafe as as a car from the 1960s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPF4fBGNK0U


There are fates worse than death.


Don't go there, unless you want to talk about the lives of coal miners.


My grandfather's dad died in the coal mines. They dropped his body off on the sidewalk infron of the house. His mother married two more times and the other husbands also died in the mine. My grandfather then worked from age 7 to 21 in the mines. He died at 88 from Black Lung induced Lung Cancer.

Yeah coal mining sucks.


>This isn't even counting the part where no new nuclear reactor could possibly be as unsafe as Chernobyl or Fukushima

That's what they say after every accident too. "This time, with the new designs, it's different".


A dangerous plant design like Chernobyl would have been illegal to build in any western country, so not sure why you think it is relevant to any other country. Accidents from hydroelectric plants have killed orders of magnitude more people than even the largest estimates of deaths from Fukushima (or even Chernobyl) - are you also opposed to hydroelectric power?



Lying about diesel emissions is also illegal. Whoops!


Um. This isn't something where you can just run your reactor in different configurations at test time and run time. The technology has come a long way since the 1960s and the math and science have advanced transformatively. Building an unsafely non-compliant nuclear plant would be like building a diesel car and then trying to tell the regulators that it's electric. You can do some fudging, sure, but things like the sign of the void coefficient are effectively impossible to lie about.


>Um. This isn't something where you can just run your reactor in different configurations at test time and run time.

No, but lying and having experts being, ahem flexible, about the expected safety is very easy, and par for the course when selling multi-billion dollar projects...

It's also very easy to ignore "black swan" event cases, and the potential impact to millions of lives, just because you think you've covered everything there is to cover.


Chernobyl was just about the worst possible outcome of a nuclear disaster: The majority of the radiological material was swept up in a cloud of graphite dust and lofted into the upper atmosphere by a fire that burned, uncontrolled, for over a week. Fukushima happened in one of the most densely populated areas on Earth. And yet, even counting those, Nuclear is still the safest energy source we have. We can talk about black swans and fudging the estimates, and I'll admit that your line of argument would be stronger if we were talking about the very first reactors to be built, when they were still just blueprints.

But that's not the case. We have real-world evidence that we can use to calibrate our expectations against reality. The fact is that, even if you count Chernobyl and Fukushima, our existing reactors are safer than fossil fuels. And I think that you would have an exceedingly difficult time arguing that newly-built reactors would be less safe than existing reactors.


And it is different. Cars still crash, but for any given crash speed ťhe survivability of any given class of car is two orders or magnitude better than its 1950s counterpart.


Which "new designs" have failed catastrophically?


The recipe for the catastrophe is design + time, so it's not like "new designs have fewer failures" offers much comfort. Of course they would.

Plus, previous installations had fewer potential non-design-related issues, such as terrorism, which (in today's nihilistic "more possible damage, including innocents and even myself" way) wasn't as much a thing in the 60s and 70s.


If you want to talk risk-of-terrorism, look at dams, not nuke plants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banqiao_Dam


At least damns damage only the area relatively near them. The implications of a nuclear catastrophe can impact thousands of miles around, including major cities.


Dams are built on large rivers. Inundations resulting from dam failures tend to follow the path of the river. Cities are also built near large rivers. The Banqiao Dam failure displaced fifteen times as many people as the Chernobyl and Fukushima Daiichi disasters combined. The impending failure of the Mosul Dam is projected to do the same.


... very likely less than coal power plants will have done.


Agreed, I'm not pro-nuclear in opposition to coal. But good point.


>Why would you suggest we prevent using all appropriate options at our disposal?

He already answered that: because not all options are appropriate.


>Can we focus on renewables and stop trying to sell people hazardous waste that can last for millenia?

No one I know is opposed to renewable energy, but advocates really do everybody a disservice when they try to argue that an intermittent power source without storage is a reasonable replacement for base load power. This comic illustrates the problem: http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/capacity

>... How can you guarantee that a certain place is safe to store millions of tons of radioactive waste for thousands of years if we can't even guarantee what will happen tomorrow?

Millions of tons? Where are you getting that number from? Right now nuclear waste can and should be recycled which would reduce the amount of waste: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_waste

Soon it will be possible to use most of the waste as fuel:

"...Fast reactors can "burn" long lasting nuclear transuranic waste (TRU) waste components (actinides: reactor-grade plutonium and minor actinides), turning liabilities into assets. Another major waste component, fission products (FP), would stabilize at a lower level of radioactivity than the original natural uranium ore it was attained from in two to four centuries, rather than tens of thousands of years"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integral_fast_reactor

The worry people have about nuclear waste is greatly overblown. The amounts generated are manageable and in a relatively short amount of time we can use most of this "waste" to generate electricity.

>...We need to stop this nuclear madness!

NASA has estimated that using nuclear power has saved an estimated 1.8 million lives that would have been lost if the power has been replaced by fossil fuels: https://climate.nasa.gov/news/903/coal-and-gas-are-far-more-...

As someone in a previous discussion pointed out, the historical record for deaths from nuclear power have been very low:

Energy Source Mortality Rate (deaths/trillionkWhr)

Coal – U.S. 10,000 (32% U.S. electricity)

Natural Gas 4,000 (22% global electricity)

Solar (rooftop) 440 (< 1% global electricity)

Wind 150 (2% global electricity)

Nuclear – U.S. 0.1 (19% U.S. electricity)


>> Can we focus on renewables and stop trying to sell people hazardous waste that can last for millenia?

> No one I know is opposed to renewable energy, but advocates really do everybody a disservice when they try to argue that an intermittent power source without storage is a reasonable replacement for base load power. This comic illustrates the problem: http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/capacity

The comic is a bit disingenious as it implies that all renewables are intermittent.

But many renewable energy sources are base load as well, e.g. hydro or wind. Yes, they have variations, but so does the load -- from the perspective of power grid management there's nothing new.

In fact this is part of the problem: renewables and nuclear (or coal) are competing for base load. If we build a nuclear plant, we need to run it for 50 years for the investment to make sense. This means that it will economically and politically impede the installation of e.g. wind power for 50 years.


Wind most certainly isn't base load. It's highly weather dependent. Occasionally, Ireland's wind infrastructure produces the country's entire electricity demand, and they actually have to start shutting down wind turbines. Also occasionally the whole system only produces a couple of hundred megawatts for a period of about a week.

There are some locations with very reliable constant wind (though usually only for part of the year) but that's not the norm. Offshore wind does better, but is still far from base load.


> Wind most certainly isn't base load.

The German government's scientific service, for one, disagrees with you.


Do you have a link to an article on this? My impression was that Germany was trying to move away from base load as a concept entirely, using unreliable renewables plus highly responsive fossil plants instead.


Here's the link: http://www.tab-beim-bundestag.de/de/untersuchungen/u140.html

It being a German government publication it's in German unfortunately.

As far as I can tell from skimming it your impression is correct.

So I apparently misremembered the article, and my claim about base load a few posts above may be incorrect after all. Sorry, rsynnott.


They moved away from Nuclear. However, now they import power from France, etc. Which has Nuclear and fossil fuel plants.


In 2016, Germany was a net exporter of electrical energy: https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/153533/umfrag...

However you're right that Germany was a net importer from (among others) France: https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/180862/umfrag...

Which is surprising as I remember reading that France has tremendous difficulties satisfying their electricity demand, especially in winter (lots of electric heating apparently).


>...The comic is a bit disingenious as it implies that all renewables are intermittent.

No, I don't think it does that.

>...But many renewable energy sources are base load as well, e.g. hydro or wind.

As user rsynnott said "Wind most certainly isn't base load." While hydro is base load power, only a few countries like China are considering building more hydro plants. We aren't going to be able to use hydro as a means to get off of burning fossil fuels.


"The budget for Hanford alone is about $2.3 billion in the current fiscal year, about $1.5 billion of that going to the management and treatment of approximately 56 million gallons of radioactive liquid waste stored in underground storage tanks." https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/05/0...

Ultimately, however, the core problem may be that such new reactors don't eliminate the nuclear waste that has piled up so much as transmute it. Even with a fleet of such fast reactors, nations would nonetheless require an ultimate home for radioactive waste, one reason that a 2010 M.I.T. report on spent nuclear fuel dismissed such fast reactors. Or, as Cochran puts it: "If you want to get rid of milk, don't feed it to cows."

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fast-reactors-to-...

"Do the math! 1.1 additional GT out of 36 GT emitted is only a 3% difference. This 3% value is not a typographical error. Worldwide, all those nukes made only a 3% dent in yearly CO2 production. Put another way, each of the 438 individual nuclear plants contribute less than seven thousandths of one percent to CO2 reduction[18]. That’s hardly enough to justify claims that keeping your old local nuke running is necessary to prevent the sea from rising."

http://www.fairewinds.org/demystify//demystifying-nuclear-po...


>The budget for Hanford alone is about $2.3 billion in...

Hanford was started in the Manhattan project to produce plutonium and during the cold war produced plutonium for tens of thousands of nuclear warheads. All of these government weapons plants were quickly started with inadequate policies for handling the material.

>...Ultimately, however, the core problem may be that such new reactors don't eliminate the nuclear waste that has piled up so much as transmute it.

A 4th gen design like the IFR would allow you to end with a much smaller volume of waste that would only be dangerous for a few centuries.

In terms of natural gas, the numbers given are probably out of date - CO2 emissions from a natural gas plant are lower than a coal plant, but that doesn't account for the methane emissions that come with fracking and distributing the methane.

>...Back in August, a NOAA-led study measured a stunning 6% to 12% methane leakage over one of the country’s largest gas fields — which would gut the climate benefits of switching from coal to gas. We’ve known for a long time that methane is a far more potent greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide (CO2), which is released when any hydrocarbon, like natural gas, is burned. But the IPCC’s latest report, released Monday (big PDF here), reports that methane is 34 times stronger a heat-trapping gas than CO2 over a 100-year time scale, so its global-warming potential (GWP) is 34. That is a nearly 40% increase from the IPCC’s previous estimate of 25. ...The IPCC reports that, over a 20-year time frame, methane has a global warming potential of 86 compared to CO2, up from its previous estimate of 72. Given that we are approaching real, irreversible tipping points in the climate system, climate studies should, at the very least, include analyses that use this 20-year time horizon. Finally, it bears repeating that natural gas from even the best fracked wells is still a climate-destroying fossil fuel. If we are to avoid catastrophic warming, our natural gas consumption has to peak sometime in the next 10 to 15 years, according to studies by both the Center for American Progress and the Union of Concerned Scientists.

https://thinkprogress.org/more-bad-news-for-fracking-ipcc-wa...

As we use more and more natural gas, we can expect more and more methane disasters like the leak from Aliso Canyon in CA which was the largest methane leak in US history. This released over 100,000 tons of methane into the atmosphere and required 11,000 residents to be evacuated.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-35659947


Just the other day: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/05/0...

It's pure madness that we keep on producing such hazardous waste! And for what purpose? Cleaner energy? Nope! If you take into account the waste management needs, the Uranium mining, the risks involved and the fact that these nuclear plants have to be highly subsidized in order to keep working. Why are we still using such an obviously flawed technology? https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/05/170525141544.h...


Because it's the only form of energy that right now could send us to Mars

We're not going there with solar or wind energy


The worldwide nuclear industry does not exist at the behest of some "let's go to Mars" lobby...


Name another source of energy we could use. We need nuclear energy and nuclear research.

Besides, it is now clear that the real problem for the planet is not nuclear disasters, but pollution.

Nuclear is greener than many alternatives.

We need to shut down fossil fuel power plants.

That's why electric cars are better than regular cars. That's where green energy is essential, for reducing pollution and CO2 impact of the average men's life.

But if we're talking about industry, powering data centers, space era, we need something more powerful, until we discover something new, the breakthrough that will start the new industrial revolution for real.

Another consideration is that there are still unsolved problems in producing energy, wherever you look for a solution.

For example, most of the solar panels active right now are not really "green", solar panels cover and "burn" a lot of soil, we still don't know the long term effects, but it is known that solar parks are affecting temperatures and weather around them.

A recent study[1] concludes that

"A growing body of studies underscores the vast potential of solar energy development in places that minimize adverse environmental impacts and confer environmental cobenefits (2, 10, 14, 15, 21). Our study of California reveals that USSE development is a source of land cover change and, based on its proximity to protected areas, may exacerbate habitat fragmentation resulting in direct and indirect ecological consequences. These impacts may include increased isolation and nonnative species invasions, and compromised movement potential of species tracking habitat shifts in response to environmental disturbances, such as climate change. Furthermore, we have shown that USSE development within California comprises siting decisions that lead to the alteration of natural ecosystems within and close to protected areas in lieu of land already impacted by humans "

[1] http://www.pnas.org/content/112/44/13579.full.pdf


This episode shows just how dangerous it is to have a militarized police force, behaving as if they were in a war zone. And it's also terrible that the Independent didn't focus it's reporting on the whole militarized police issue.


Yeah. I remember once looking into the military reserves in the U.S. They had a list of occupations, and the civilian jobs the occupation would prepare you for. So, if you're a military base electrician, it prepares you for being a civilian electrician, etc. For infantry, they said that it prepared you well to be a police officer.

So the U.S. government is taking up a large chunk of young people's prime years and teaching them few transferable skills. But they need to pretend like they're not just wasting they're lives, so they tell them that now that they know how to fight a war they know how to be a police officer. Then, unsurprisingly, we get police officers who think they're soldiers.


Gentrify Portugal


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