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I already linked to this article on Advanced Data Protection for iCloud (e2ee for most things) in a different comment, but it feels like a lot of people don’t know about this feature. It literally has zero effect on the user experience (except janky access to iCloud via the web, but shrug). Apple’s competitors don’t have anything close and their business models mean they probably never will.

https://support.apple.com/en-ca/102651


> Apple is very intrusive

> Apple uses your data.

> they do other things too, a different way

What specifically do you mean? Their frankly quite paranoid security and privacy white papers are pretty comprehensive and I don’t think they could afford to lie in those.

> Apple should allow a personal you-have-all-your-data iCloud

Advanced Data Protection[0] applies e2ee for basically everything, with the exception email, and doesn’t degrade the seamless multi-device experience at all. For most people this is the best privacy option by a long shot, and no other major platform can provide anything close.

They’ve hampered product experience for a long time because of their allergy against modelling their customers on the cloud. The advent of AI seems to have caught them a bit off guard but the integrated ecosystem and focus on on-device processing looks like it may pay off, and Siri won’t feel 5 years behind Google Assistant or Alexa.

[0] https://support.apple.com/en-ca/102651


> What specifically do you mean? Their frankly quite paranoid security and privacy white papers are pretty comprehensive and I don’t think they could afford to lie in those.

A couple of years ago Apple was busted when it was discovered that most Apple first-party apps weren't getting picked up by packet sniffer or firewalls on macOS.

Apple tried deflecting for a while before finally offering up the flimsy claim that it "was necessary to make updates easier". Which isn't a really good explanation when you're wondering why TextEdit.app needs a kernel network extension.


What actually happened was Apple removed support for kernel extensions that these firewall apps used.

The user-mode replacement APIs allowed by sandboxed apps had a whitelist for Apple's apps, so you couldn't install some App Store firewall app that would then disable the App Store and screw everything up.

After the outrage, in a point release a few months later, they silently emptied out the whitelist, resolving the issue.

They never issued any kind of statement.


So their "fix", as described here, removed protection from "having the App Store disabled and everything screwed up"?

That makes no sense.

Even if it did, the app the would need protection is the App Store, not every single Apple app. In many cases, the fix for the worst case scenario would be "remove firewall app".

Also, given that TextEdit was not an AppStore app, for but one example, but a base image app.

> They never issued any kind of statement.

Shocking. I've had at least two MBPs affected by different issues that were later subject to recall, but no statement there. radar.apple.com may well be read by someone, but is largely considered a black hole.


Vancouver until fairly recently had the same thing. I remember a hostel downtown that had a boisterous bar where one side had the license and one side didn’t for some arcane reason and they had a three foot fence with a swinging door separating the two sides. Hostel stuff still tried to happen, one night I was there and a guy stood up and started playing saxophone and a bunch of people started dancing and the poor staff had to go into panic mode trying to get everyone to stop.


Can’t you just use a mouse and keyboard as controllers? It’s hard to imagine any hardware peripheral that would improve on them for making a keynote or we’d already be using it on our desktops.


This was just one example, but yeah if the answer is always “just use a mouse and keyboard” then the experiences are going to be quite limited. I guess I’m used to the high interactivity of experiences on the Quest and the Vision Pro is just a glorified screen to me.


That’s a really great endorsement. I had Zinsser as a textbook for a non-fiction creative writing class in university. It was one of the only textbooks I never had a compunction to sell. Haven’t read it since then, but your comment will make me give it a re-read.


Link aggregators was what site like this, digg, and reddit were called when they started. They introduced a social aspect for upvoting content into a dynamic feed. It’s something more than a forum, and something less than what later became social media.


But before that, forums existed that let you subscribe to threads in your forum account. It's just that the mundane masses used them a little less than the geeky folk. All Reddit added was stealing the upvote/downvote thing from Slashdot and Digg.


And combining all topics under a single umbrella, so you interact with them all as the same persona.


Signal runs on donations with a small staff and budget, and even still half of its infrastructure budget goes to sending a verification SMS on sign-up. You can run an open chat network as a tiny non-profit, and any hope of profits is in the same ballpark. For the incumbents it’s a loss leader for other services, and that complicates the whole analysis going on in this thread.


Microsoft barely got a slap on the wrist from the DoJ in the end. Market competition from Firefox, Opera, Safari, and Chrome, along with industry and cultural support for browser standards, was the ultimate remedy, and that would have happened with or without the DoJ. The original suit was brought by Netscape who were charging $40 for a browser license at the time. It was a dead end business model and MS was ultimately right when they argued in the nineties that browser tech was so fundamental it needed to be integrated into the OS.

I love iMessage because it has a good feature set for family group chats (photo sharing is stellar), but I’m also happy with all the innovation, choice, and competition on features and governance provided by Signal, WhatsApp, Telegram, et al, each of which have their own strengths and have to respond to improvements by the others. The worst thing that could happen to innovation is if we were all using the same iMessage protocol forced into the stewardship of a DoJ mandated standards body.

I really can’t understand the obsession with default SMS functionality. Other than 2FA codes or setting up Uber on a new phone who gets an SMS more than once a month?


“DOS ain’t done til Lotus won’t run”

Whether that was ever fully policy at Microsoft, people sure believed it was.

1995 was also around the time MS was pursing its embrace-extend-extinguish strategy to the internet with internet explorer.


The hacker spirit uses Signal. Promoting WhatsApp over the more open community-supported alternative is worse than gloating over Beeper.


I would very much prefer to use something other than WhatsApp (especially as Facebook has banned me for life from all their other apps), but my attempts keep failing.

My wife won't use Signal because it includes a crypto wallet and crypto transactions are taxable.

Matrix/Element would be my preferred option, but it causes so many security or encryption related issues that it has scared off everyone I tried using it with. Nobody knows what to do with the incessant popups demanding to "verify" something or other. Nobody (including myself) knows why older messages often can't be decrypted.

Telegram is less secure than WhatsApp.

Threema is not free, which makes it difficult for me to ask people to install it. It's not open source either.

iMessage is Apple only.

So what's left besides WhatsApp?


> My wife won't use Signal because it includes a crypto wallet and crypto transactions are taxable.

I think the crypto wallet is lame, and am disappointed the Signal folks decided to integrate something like that, but it's entirely opt-in. If she doesn't want to worry about being taxed on crypto transactions, she can simply not use that part of the app. I actually forgot for a second it was there until you brought it up, and I'm a daily Signal user.


I told her it's not activated by default but she doesn't want to touch crypto with a 10 ft pole. She says if it's in there then tax authorities might eventually come asking if the feature becomes popular. And then she would have to keep evidence of not actually using it.

I think her concerns are overblown, but it shows how incompatible taxable transactions are with a privacy focused app. The two things should be kept well apart.

[Edit] Politically, it kind of defeats the purpose as well. You want to be able to argue that you have a right to privacy when it comes to personal communication. You don't want to be in a position of having to defend the privacy of trading securities.


This is why I also have my signal set for automatically disappearing messages. I want you all to try to delete your messages if you have iCloud turned on. It’s impossible and if you managed to do it they’re stuck on the server for 30 days. Apple is a spy service.


It does not show this.

Separately, you've either misunderstood her position, or it's poorly thought out, and/or ideologically based.

What path would tax authorities use to ask Signal users (and only Signal users) if they've used cryptocurrency?


>What path would tax authorities use to ask Signal users (and only Signal users) if they've used cryptocurrency?

Tax law. In the UK, every single payment in cryptocurrencies, however small, is a taxable disposal that you have to include in your tax return if your total proceeds or gains from all investments are above a certain threshold.

I'm not ideologically opposed to cryptocurrencies and neither is my wife. She's just allergic to anything that could potentially raise tax questions.


Now I'm seriously wondering how hard is to fill taxes in the UK. I think I have done worse mistakes than a few cents in crypto and all I got was having to resubmit the forms.

Edit: On second thought, I don't own a business, so I guess nobody is going to look into my tax fillings with the same suspicion since they do not expect me to be doing anything funny with my accounting.


>Now I'm seriously wondering how hard is to fill taxes in the UK

Doing it correctly is non-trivial. You have to submit a so called computation for each individual disposal, which can easily run into several pages.

The algorithm for working out the cost of a disposal is actually a pretty interesting test case for learning a new programming language or paradigm. Try implementing UK share identification rules in SQL for instance :)


You do not have to activate the "crypto wallet", even less use it.


I responded to this in the other thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38580504


TIL it even has one.


I wish watching ads on Facebook was treated as personal income that you have report to IRS. Social graph would fix itself in a nanosecond.


I use many messengers, Signal too. It lacks in polish and features compared to all the others. Its security premise is undermined by insistence of using a phone number – which can be spoofed or taken over – to sign up.

I see it as the result of hacking spirit running the development, not the product team. Currently it can’t compete.


not only does the hacker spirit use Signal, but they tell people that’s the only way they want to communicate. At least that’s what I do. It forced my friends to install Signal because of it six more people are using Signal.

People who contact me over SMS get an immediate phone call from me in response.


What strange woman lying in a pond gave you a sword to make you Decider Of The Hacker Spirit?


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