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I bet that if you had asked AT&T and the like - before they got caught - if they gave the NSA warrant-less access to U.S. citizens' communications, they would have also said "no."


Why should PHP "force" anything? That's one of PHP's strengths: the ability to be everything from a simple dynamic webpage to a full blown app. That's like saying "I wish someone would make a hammer that only strikes nails, because I'm a poor craftsman and keep hitting my thumb."

Love it or hate it, PHP will be around long after elitist devs turn their guns on noSQL and server side JS.


I agree. At it's PHP is just a template language. There are many great PHP MVC framworks that have evolved over the years to incorporate many "best practices". The choice should be up to the developer depending on the project.


I'm assuming you meant "At its core, PHP is just a template language." That's a ridiculous, extremely over-generalized assertion.

I don't know of many "template languages" that treat classes as first-class citizens, has an in-depth, thorough unit testing framework, traits, closures, and and and.

I'm sure you get my idea? PHP may have been much simpler at its inception - it is not the same beast now.


ITT: People who haven't used PHP since 4.2 think they know what the language is like and base all their opinions on a language version over 10 years old.

I hate when PHP pops up here on HN, 90% of the people flapping their gabs don't or haven't used PHP for many many years, and when they did it was some Indian's crap code so they spend their time talking shit about a language because they had to fix a bug in Hinderbar's PHP spaghetti from 2003.


If there's one thing I've learned in my years of software development it's that software is the great equaliser.

Everyone is capable of writing crappy spaghetti code.


Yeah, always those damn Indians and their crap code. Every other country's PHP developers write amazingly elegant PHP - it's just those damn Indians.


You didn't really have to add the racism to make that point.


Anything meaningful I do on my mobile devices - photos, files, etc. - gets backed up to Dropbox. It's 100% automatic, and has been a real life saver. I also use it as basically a virtual thumb drive to "move" files between work/home. I'm the exact opposite of you: I'm flabbergasted that people don't use it. That said, I wouldn't pay for it. There are much cheaper backup solutions (Crashplan).


At $0 subsidized you would be getting ripped off. You'd be better off buying a subsidized iPhone, selling it, then buying the G at full price (plus pocketing a bunch of $$ at the same time).


I would bet cash flow is more important to which phone someone buys than absolute value.


Sure, but there's so much differential that it would make sense to buy a 5S on a contract using a payday loan, put it on eBay, and then use the proceeds to pay off the expensive loan, buy the Moto G, and go buy a bunch of groceries for your family with the difference.

The Moto G would be a straight-up ripoff on a traditional contract. I expect it to be a hit in the prepaid market, however.


Their focus wasn't on the product, it was on living/working in SF. They could have saved a year's worth of AWS payments alone by trimming the fat that comes with wanting to be in a "hip" location.


I know what you mean, SF is too expensive. But it's basically impossible to relocate a team of 7 who already have various different ties to a given area.


For product development, remote working is one solution. I work remote with my team all the time. Sometimes you need to see each other face to face, then meet up somewhere where it's affordable. Could make for a good team field trip even!


My feeling too, when you have an internet business, why would you waste so much money in the location...


And shoot yourself in the foot when it comes to future funding, potential hires, and acquisition talks.

Of course there are cons to living in SF, but if you're going for a series A after landing an initial investment it makes sense to base out of SF.


Does office space for 7 employees in SF really cost ~10K/month? I know in midtown Manhattan a previous startup I was at had over 5K sq ft for that price.


True. But, it seems many VCs won't consider you if you're not in the valley.


Typically, no VC will consider funding a business which has gone bankrupt and shut down...


PHP haters are hysterical, I mean that in the clinical sense. It is powerful, flexible, blazing fast (relative, I know), and arguably the easiest (or at least most accessible) language to learn. Its flexibility is what generates most of the hate. It gives you the freedom to create some really bad/stupid code, which noobs inevitably do. But hating it because it will let you hurt yourself is like hating a table saw because it can cut your arm off.


A table saw doesn't try to disguise its blade as the stop button...

My favorite bug to date? Uninitialized variables being interpreted as strings. That's the one I get to debug for clients on a regular basis. "Why can't I make this DB connection?" "Because you forgot to initialize the variable containing the database name."


I actually hate it because it's not flexible enough. I did a few years of PHP dev and maintenance after learning and using Perl first. There's enough superficial similarities that it really makes the warts stand out. Every time I wanted to simply use a map, grep, anonymous function, or multiple items returned from a function, I was reminded of how much better it could have been if a bit more forethought was put into it.


I'm not really sure it's fair to say that people hate PHP because of its flexibility. Many other languages are very "flexible", and much more so than PHP for some things (you're less likely to do dumb threading or malloc mistakes in PHP, for example).

I think it's because PHP has a much larger surface area of questionable decisions to attack. When your core language is very, very small (e.g. Scheme), you have less to criticize, but when PHP has everything and the kitchen sink, plus a lack of an overarching philosophy or standard, plus a broken core developers community, it simply generates many more hatable things.


I don't hate it, I just find it hilarious to have stuff like == and === ; the old 'mysql_real_escape' (I think now fixed) and other stuff like that.

I wouldn't want to engage in a big project in a language as unstable as that.


The obvious counter point is that most people who hate PHP quite like C. But C more closely fits your description of "freedom to create some really bad/stupid code" than PHP does. People hate it because it makes it more difficult to do things well, not because it makes it easy to do things poorly.


PhpMyAdmin has turned into an utter mess. I use - and most definitely rely on it - daily. But every version since 2.X has been a step back. The AJAX in the latest version is disastrous. Everything about it is slower than the older frame versions. Worse yet, even simple tasks such as renaming a table or column will cause it to go non-responsive.


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