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My experience is similar. Modern enthusiast CPUs and hardware compatibility is going backwards. I have a 5900x that randomly crashes on idle, but not under load. My 285K has so far been rock solid and generally feels snappier. I feel like both Intel and AMD are really trying to push the envelope to look good on benchmarks and this is the end result.

I imagine this has been in the works much longer than that, but it it has helped provide a real life case study of why this could be a viable product offering.

True, I think getting a block chain setup in a month is possible. But at the same time I don't think they would try and rush something like this out, stuff breaking would be much worse PR after what has already happened.

I do think it's possible they put more money/talent onto the problem after it happened though.


The F35 program had a ton of issues and was expensive, but so was the B2 program. Sometimes something good comes out of a difficult process. They have made a lot of F35s now and exported many of them with many many more on order. At this point I think it is fair to say the F35 is a successful platform.

There is a lot of doom and gloom regarding Intel, but there are also signs of life. Intel is starting to show off products made on 18a and is slated to ship at least one product on that process this calendar year. Meanwhile TSMC has been stuck on 3nm for quite some time and it appears that there will not be a product with TSMC 2nm this year. If both of these prove true, Intel will have roughly caught up in terms of process. There is a lot more work to be done, but do not underestimate how quickly Intel's fortune can change if they manage to start hitting their mark and TSMC falters even slightly.

Don't underestimate the pettiness of the current administration. They didn't like the old deal because they didn't make it. It is really as simple as that.

There werestrings attached to the CHIPs act money. Not saying this is some great deal. It isn't. It is a deal made from a place of necessity and weakness for Intel, but it gives them the cash infusion they need in the short term. Right now Intel's only goal is to have enough money to get 14a off the ground and attract at least one large external customer to prove their capabilities.


Probably closer to two decades behind at this point.


They are the only US company that can produce cutting edge chips now and realistically within the next 15+ years. It doesn’t matter that TSMC produces chips in the US. That is nice for the short term but doesn’t do much for the US in the long term if TSMC falls under China’s influence.

Intel is in the midst of a dramatic turnaround and huge shift in strategy. It might fail. But if they succeed it puts Intel and the US in a much stronger position in terms of technology and military leadership.


It mattered for China to have Apple/Foxconn/etc assemble phones in China. By this same logic, won’t TSMC have more tacit knowledge to offer America than Intel, even if their independence is short-lived?


Why would TSMC or Taiwan want to give that information to the United States? There is a strategic reason why TSMC does not build their latest nodes and processes in the United States and why their R&D happens in Taiwan. They want / need The United States to protect Taiwan and their interests. It opens up strategic options for the United States if Intel or another US based company can produce cutting edge chips in the ballpark of TSMC.


What other US company has a shot of making a sub 5 nm chip in the next, oh, let’s say 20 years?

Because of this, unfortunately, Intel is too big too fail.


TSMC.


US company. R&D is more important than the fabs. TSMC is under threat from China.


Gee I wonder why the US gov showered TSMC in money to build a fab on US soil.


Again, that is nice in the short term, but not for long term development if the worst happens between China and Taiwan.


We'd still have the fab on US soil even if they went to war. I don't think China would invade the US over it.


What about the next fab? And the fab after that? Yes, for the short term the USA has a cutting edge fab on US soil, but what about 10 years after that? The US would lack the ability to build future cutting edge fabs.


Having TSMC build a fab on US soil doesn't prevent any parallel efforts. If anything having the workforce here would make it easier to build future fabs.


I never said it did. Having a fab on US soil is important for the short term, but you need cutting edge fabs on US soil in the future too and that doesn't happen unless you are doing a lot of research.

Okay, so Taiwan is blockaded or invaded by China. The USA has a 3nm TSMC fab that they can assume control over, and, yes, they have the labor of that fab, great, but what about 2 nm? 1 nm? Etc? Without TSMCs R&D does the US have a cutting edge fab in 10 years? 20 years? Beyond? There is literally no other company in the United States that could even hope to expand their capabilities to be considered on the cutting edge within the next 15 years.


The easiest way to get TSMC's R&D in the US is to have them build a fab here and have employees here. If China invades Taiwan, and TSMC has employees that want to flee to somewhere else, the US would be the most logical option. If they already have a fab here, an established workforce and infrastructure here, that's better than having to start from nothing.


Taiwan as a country doesn't want that. There is a reason they only fab their latest and greatest chips domestically in Taiwan. It is of Taiwan's national interest and of TSMCs interest to do everything they can to ensure that the US protects them from China.

Again, it is a net positive for the US to have TSMC manufacture chips on US soil, so I am not arguing against that point, I simply posit it is not enough from a US national security / technology leadership standpoint.


I think we agree and we've just been talking past each other. Cheers.


Best.


I agree with your point, but to answer your first question, “why Intel and not AMD?” It is simply because Intel is the only US company, and one of only three chip manufacturers worldwide to even try to make cutting edge chips and that has an outside shot of doing so in the next decade or so.

Domestic chip production is a national security interest. Frankly the US should be funding one or more companies to expand their fab capabilities.


AMD is a US company:

Founder: Jerry Sanders

Headquarters: Santa Clara, California

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD


AMD doesn't fab their own chips. They currently utilize TSMC for that. Yes, if we were only talking about cutting edge chip design the US has no shortage.


USG is looking at spending ~$10B on an Intel stake. It's worth wondering whether it might make more sense to instead put the same money into AMD and earmark it for US fabs. Ditto NVidia.


There is an argument to be made there about how best to allocate the funds, but regardless of how the funds are deployed that spend has to be on Intel if you want it to protect US chip manufacturing and R&D. There are no other US chip manufacturers that are even trying to produce a chip under 12 nm. Unfortunately they are the only viable option.


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