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Wasn't this only about supplementation?


We had a forest of openldap trees in 2002. Openldap had a replication integrated. Slapd (its more than 20 years ago forgive me if I get things wrong). You could use a counter or timestamps to resolf conflicts. How do you solve conflicts?


My bad slapd is the openldap daemon.


KHTML was the basis for Chrome and Safari. A valid concern


Chrome in itself is not the problem. Competition is good. Firefox is better now thanks to Chrome.

Neither is Safari. Safari is actually part of the solution. Safari has saved Firefox and other browsers by being the only option on iOS for a long time and a better choice for many (because of battery usage) on Mac OS. Without Safari I am afraid we would all be locked into Chrome now.

The problem is that Google, like Microsoft before them,

1. used their dominant position in one market to force their way into dominating another market,

2. used various underhanded tactics to make users think Chrome were better while in reality it was just given better treatment by their backend servers and also the Googles frontend devs[1]

3. and that unlike Microsoft they still haven't got a multi billion fine for it and haven't been forced to advertise alternative browsers for months.

[1]: see various bugs[2] in everything from the core of the Angular framework to Google Calendar to YouTube

[2]: yes, I am generous enough to consider them bugs. I am fairly certain though that bugs that doesn't affect Chrome aren't exactly considered top priority.


> Safari is actually part of the solution ...

> Google, like microsoft, <1-3>

If you're going to complain about 1-3 for google and ms, I don't think you can praise safari in the same breath.

Apple's abused their position with the iPhone to make safari relevant, and unlike Chrome and IE, users can't just install another browser.

Apple's behavior is the only reason I can't run my own addons I've written for firefox on iOS (they run _fine_ on android of course), why I can't run uBlock origin on iOS, and so on.

Apple's behavior on iOS is far more egregious than anything microsoft or google has ever done.

I never once had to run IE or Chrome unwillingly since I could always install netscape, or mosaic, or firefox.

I'm forced to run Safari, unable to decently block ads, unable to use the adons I've written, unable to fork and patch my browser to fix bugs, and I've generally had my software freedoms infringed... and if I don't run safari, then I can't talk to my family group chat (no androids allowed, sms breaks the imessage group features too much) or talk to my grandma who only knows how to use facetime.

I wish so much I could use a phone with firefox, but I can't justify having a spare iPhone just to talk to my family, so I'm kinda forced to suffer through safari, held hostage by apple's monopolistic iMessage behavior.

The only thing that comes close to Apple's behavior is Google's campaign to force Chromebooks upon children in classrooms, requiring them to use Chrome, but at least Google isn't holding their grandmother's hostage... and managed work/school devices already are kinda expected to have substantially less freedom than personal devices, so it feels much less egregious.


Maybe I missed something but your arguments seem be about how Apple’s locking down of iOS/iPadOS and Safari are harmful to user freedom. That’s a very different argument from the one the person you’re replying to was making. They were saying that the popularity of Apple’s mobile devices coupled with their only running Safari holds back a Chrome monopoly in the browser space. If people don’t support Safari they lose out on a large portion of users.


> If people don’t support Safari they lose out on a large portion of users.

If people don't support Safari, it's because the free market has spoken and overwhelmingly chooses alternative options: https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/worl...

The story would be different, if Apple wasn't miserly with their native APIs and App distribution. But this is indeed a harmful and competition-restricting decision, even in Mozilla's opinion: https://mozilla.github.io/platform-tilt/

So I think we can safely assume that Apple's policy harms browser diversity by forcing their users to support a single minority option. If their users preferred a more feature-filled browser, we would never know; they aren't sincerely presented an alternative choice. If Apple wants their users to defend Safari, maybe they should invest in it until their browser (or Operating System, for that matter) competes with Chrome. Until then, they're promoting a megalomaniac solution and being a sore loser about it at the same time.


> because the free market has spoken

You mean the company dominating the internet heavily promoted and pushed users towards its own browser.

> If their users preferred a more feature-filled browser

Where by "feature-filled" you mean "all the Chrome-only non-standards because free market or something"


> You mean the company dominating the internet heavily promoted and pushed users towards its own browser.

If the company dominating their hardware did any better, maybe the majority of them wouldn't leave Safari. If Apple doesn't want to build a competitive browser, then they need some (non-anticompetitive) strategy to retain their users. Otherwise we're doing the Microsoft Shuffle again.

> Where by "feature-filled" you mean "all the Chrome-only non-standards because free market or something"

No, at this point I really do just mean "feature-filled". iOS has notoriously restrictive APIs and it makes full sense that those users would want a browser do do the things Apple prevents their iPhone from doing natively. At the rate Apple's heading, I wouldn't be surprised if next-gen iPhone apps were just PWAs that hook into WebGPU. Big-business has no reason to keep living under Apple's thumb, and market regulators can't justify it in Europe, Japan or even the United States.


> If the company dominating their hardware did any better

Apple doesn't dominate all of hardware. Google, however, dominates major access points to the internet, and used it to aggressively promote its browser.

> No, at this point I really do just mean "feature-filled".

I doubt it

> iOS has notoriously restrictive APIs and it makes full sense that those users would want a browser do do the things Apple prevents their iPhone from doing natively.

Ah. So you are talking about Google-only non-standards

> I wouldn't be surprised if next-gen iPhone apps were just PWAs that hook into WebGPU

Android has been the dominant OS for over a decade now. It has no real or perceived limitations of iOS. We've yet to see a single amazing PWA future we hear so much about.


> We've yet to see a single amazing PWA future we hear so much about.

Then maybe it's time you gave Android another try. Chrome runs on mobile just as well as it does on desktop, so any of the web apps you use on your computer work fine on phone too. It makes modern Safari look like a tofu browser substitute by comparison.


> Then maybe it's time you gave Android another try. Chrome runs on mobile just as well as it does on desktop

So?

> so any of the web apps you use on your computer work fine on phone too.

So where's the amazing PWA future we hear so much about. All the "amazing web apps" we hear about are shitty slow bad monstrosities that can barely display a few lines of text without jank.

The very few actual great apps which are made ad great engineering effort and expense (like Figma) don't run in full mode on mobile for obvious reasons.

So, my question remains and you haven't answered it.

Edit: There are some web apps here and there which are surprisingly good. E.g. I'm quite impressed by Foodora's app. And it runs well on iOS, too. However, 99.9999999% of the "great PWA future" is just garbage despite the "Chrome runs just as well on Android".


Orion Browser includes experimental Firefox extension support on iOS https://kagi.com/orion/


And it works really well from what I see.

Although Orion also has built in a (simpler) implementation the most important Firefox for me and I assume many others, tree style tabs. Orions built in version doesn't have the full customizability from TST but it works and presents tabs nested by what tab the descend from which is the most important feature.


> Safari has saved Firefox and other browsers by being the only option on iOS for a long time

Amazing. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_(advertisement)


Hehe.

But more seriously: it is actually the truth.

Kind of in in the same way that people are thankful for Churchill: not because he was a fantastic man in every way (he wasn't) but because he saved us from something even worse.


> But more seriously: it is actually the truth.

If you have to convince people that you are seriously telling the truth, you are probably making an unproven assertion that relies on many benefits of the doubt.


Big Brother keeps Oceania safe from Eurasia and Eastasia. And especially from Emmanuel Goldstein.


I thought the other browsers on IOS were just skins of webkit / safari ?


Yes, and the commenter claims that in this context this is actually good because it halted chrome/chromium's dominance in the internet (and I actually agree). It may sound paradoxical, but context is important imo.


That is to a large degree correct.

I even thought it wasn't necessary to test them separately but I recently heard from someone with more and more recent experience that some differences exist, particularly around prefixed css attributes. Can't say for sure though, but that was why I wrote my comment above somewhat defensively.


EU law does force them to advertise alternative search engines. I just updated Chrome on my work laptop and they gave me a slate of search engines. My Chrome defaults to Brave Search now.


WebKit is still an open project as is Blink. Why would this be concerning?


My comment was a response. It's a concern for Ladybird not Webkit. It's about the licence. But OP is ok with that so.


Was KHTML not GPL?

How is MIT any worse at preventing this, when GPL didn't?


A: "Hey the measures we took weren't enough to prevent the abuse?"

B: "Ah I see that means we should just give up all measures, instead of you know advocating for stronger measures or anything else obvious and logical like that."

This only means we must start any projects today with stronger GPL or similar variants such as AGPL.


Better analogy.

You had a security breach, despite using a better set of technologies and techniques.

During the postmortem, you suggest this means we should give up all security or just use the weaker solution, since its all the same, the server would have gotten breached in either case.

Instead of advocating for building a stronger security.


Disabling features less attack surface


different implementations of vnc support different compression algorithms and for some reason vnc always defaults to the worst (most compatible?!?) ones. You can achieve a lot by tweaking the client and server settings. The results were good enought for me to support customer with ISDN internet between 2001-2006.


dcop was better. easy to use and accessible for non developer. I scripted so many dcop bash scripts. I never connected with dbus.


Pi 1 a/b were really fragile but since pi 2 this problem is mostly solved. Still if I need to write a lot I would use a external drive. We have >300 pies running 24/7 on 52 sites all over the world. Even though we use no name brand microSDs we had only 2 failures because of a broken SD card in 4 years. Our partner company was using our hardware as a basis for something. After 1 month they asked us what SD cards brand we were using because they had a high failure rate. Our secret. We use a self made distro with minimal writes, they used default raspian and were writing permanently to the SD card.


10 Years ago there was the so called Perl Renaissance. Which should turn Perl around. Sad truth is. People already moved on. Everything to little to late and not what the people where looking for.


I started a new Perl project 7 years ago and it has been an ecstatic experience for me. It is basically a text processor and HTML generator, so Perl has all the features I need. I am so happy, and I'm not even using anything beyond 5.010. I'm at 32K+ LOC now, and I'm also using the project to teach programming to Ukrainian kids over Zoom.

Number of breaking changes I have experienced in these 7 years? 0.

Number of times I've had any significant issues setting up a new deployment? 0.

It may not be as popular, but it certainly continues to work well.


Yep. The fact that 100% of the code I've written in Perl since the beginning of this century still works just fine year after year with each new release is an immense bonus. I have deployment scripts written on Debian 3 still running in cron "as is" 20 years later, zero maintenance. Try that with Python, PHP or Ruby...


That's what I liked about Windows too. I had to move to Linux, but with wine I know I will able able to use some binaries forever.

If I write something that I plan to reuse or need again later, I will write it in perl


You may like Haiku, which maintains backwards compatibility with ancient beos while still being posix system.

Never used it myself, just repeating what heard.


There's some nice stuff in the new features and everybody has their favourites. Some like the subroutine signatures, but I'm a big fan of the hash slices and postfix dereferencing in v5.20.

https://www.effectiveperlprogramming.com/category/perl/new-f...


I don't get this line of criticism. Perl is a dynamic language and it gives you a lot of flexibility and allows you to add things you think you need.

It's not like Java/Go/Rust where you really have to wait for new syntax in the language.

I think maybe whoever thinks like this about Perl shouldn't have been using it in the first place because they needed something different, like a strongly typed language.


Apples and Oranges.

Php startet as a Perl framework. Ruby is direct reaction to Perls inability to evolve (Perl autobox is great. Why not in core). There is Python. I love Perl. Use it daily. I used Moose, mouse, any::mouse and was excited about p5-mop. But there is no traction in change. Also fact is Perl has a bad image and Perl gets patched out of all projects.


> Php started as a Perl framework

This isn't true. PHP/FI was written in C. Here's Rasmus announcing it to the world in 1995: https://groups.google.com/g/comp.infosystems.www.authoring.c...


I don't know why you're being downvoted. It's the truth. Back in the 90s many of us invested hundreds of hours mastering Perl and post 2008 ended up using Python/Ruby/etc more frequently for various reasons and now speaking for myself I can barely decipher a line of Perl. It's syntax is extremely hard to maintain in memory when you stop using it.


if people leave perl because of the syntax then a perl renaissance was not going to stop that. the change that had a chance to make the syntax more attractive was perl 6/raku.


Example?


For me, it was the argument passing syntax. I had to look up the magic sigil for doing hashref stuff every single time.

One day I tried Python, learned that everything is passed by object reference, and set Perl aside and never looked back. There was so much less mental overhead that Perl never lured me back.


There was an experimental auto-deref feature since Perl 5.14 And it's already gone again since 5.24.


That's because it didn't work reliably. There were at least a couple of situations where Perl would have had to guess which operation you were trying to perform, so the feature was a source of potential bugs.


Hi. I really liked your book Modern Perl. Yes unfortunately auto-deref had problems.


I hope this is a bug and gets fixed. The site never worked for me. "Watch later" a list of dead videos of which I can't even find out the names. Since I found the feeds I use only RSS with Feedbro. Well.. I will properly save a lot of time not watching youtube anymore.


Would not be the first time the cheaper technology becomes the market leader instead of the "better" one. Time will tell.


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