"This was the first leadership interview loop in the past 12 months (20+ companies) in which anyone had asked me to write code."
Interesting data point for the question: at what point in your career will you stop being asked to write code on a whiteboard to prove you aren't lying on your resume.
I’ve never been through an interview cycle where candidates didn’t lie about this, so I assume pretty high. It always boggled my mind that people would claim programming skills but not be able to write hello world.
If its not the pressure cooker, this is trick question and i am going to blast you for missing the return and void in parenthesis types question then we can partially blame the candidate.
Many of us have faltered like this once or twice unless its an outright lie kind of situation.
I’m not a fan of trick questions. It’s usually something as simple as “you have 10 minutes write out a program in any language you like that takes in a string and prints out the reverse.”
The idea is just a litmus test and I don’t think it’s useful for filtering anything other than liars. I never had someone completely freeze up.
You got 21 recruiter messages _with salary_?? Amazing.
I have had almost no luck getting that information from recruiters without hopping on a call. None have ever provided that information upfront.
I only managed to get that info from an Amazon recruiter after pushing the issue pretty hard. At first he bragged that Amazon had upped their bands, without mentioning any numbers. When I asked how much, he pointed to a reddit thread and levels.fyi, still not mentioning any numbers. I finally straight-up asked him to stop being coy and just name the range, after all it's law in California and I'm going to keep asking until I get an answer. It took him a couple of days to respond, then I never heard from him again.
And this is the only recruiter that has ever actually given me an answer. Ever.
How can it simultaneously be the hottest job market in anyone's memory, and yet the process still looks like this? These don't look like companies struggling to hire; these look like companies being exceedingly picky and not suffering one bit for it.
It's where they're applying, I think: "Apple, Babylon, Cloudflare, Deliveroo, Monzo, Spotify, TrueLayer." Don't know anything about Babylon or TrueLayer but most of these are largish, established companies. I've found early-stage startups less picky recently - I got a job at a startup in November that only required 4 video interviews each between 30 minutes to an hour. No whiteboarding, mostly just discussing previous projects. Finally the last (4th) interview was with the CTO where he started by saying: "It's really hard to find people good people to hire right now" and basically said he wanted to hire me and asked if I had any questions.
Have Startup salaries gone up recently to match the market? I had thought it's pretty understood that you are taking a significant paycut relative to established players to basically play the lottery with startup equity?
Startup salaries have gone up a lot in the last few years from the boom in funding. Experienced engineers with several years of experience are clearing $200K+ in base, and getting a solid equity cut too: https://topstartups.io/startup-salary-equity-database/
Appreciate the link. Don't know if you're affiliated with the site but the ability to sort the data would be incredibly useful and the name of the Startup would be of interest as well like levels.fyi
Maybe the other way to look at it is, the "established players" can only employ so many people. Many of them are paying some pretty insane salaries now (I consider over $200K pretty insane) - but as I said, they can only employ so many people. In my case the salary is plenty good without even having to take equity into account. And the work is likely much more interesting than I'd get to do in an established company. Also, if the startup makes it I could be in a pretty good position being able to call a lot of my own shots as to what I'm going to work on and how I'm going to work on it - autonomy.
All that to say, it seems a lot more like a lottery trying to get a job with the established players (after jumping through all their interview hoops), and while the money might be better, the type of work, what you work on, the level of autonomy you're given (or not) is also very important.
I am applying to ~10 companies, mostly start-ups, and they all have the same process. They are mostly not pure algorithms but have varying degrees of difficulty and all use multiple rounds of on the spot coding. Perhaps ironically I found the one purely algorithmic question (standard graph traversal) to be the least stressful.
Because regardless of the hotness of the market 90% of candidates are still completely unqualified for the position they are applying to. Companies would rather keep the role unfilled than hire someone who can't code "hello, world!" (and no, that's not an exaggeration).
That may be a challenge, but if a candidate has years of experience in the software industry then their resume might vouch for some skills. If a developer has delivered features to common tools that many appreciate then how is it possible that they cannot accomplish basic coding tasks? The main problem here is that teams that are hiring often don't even bother to read resumes and so they end up with a process that is expensive, broken, and actually insulting to the most qualified candidates.
That's the point of the interview, to validate the resume by having in-depth conversation about the projects in it.
Note this doesn't mean trying to test for the skills that they must've applied to do those jobs. That's hopeless to achieve in an interview for all the reasons endlessly documented in these threads. Instead, assume that if they did the jobs listed in the resume, obviously they must have the skills to have done them. So now the interview is about validating they did those jobs, not the technical detail itself.
Based on more than two decades of hiring, this works very well.
Yeah, the expectation that _everyone_ excels in leadership and influence leads to some absurd situations, like everyone on a team being "tech lead" for some part of the project. Or the all-"senior" team. Presumably they're all leading each other? Same game goes for cross-functional impact.
The whole point of the separate individual ladder was to give an alternate career path to management. What a lie that's turned out to be.
Thank you for calling out on-call responsibilities in your job listing. Too many job listings today fail to mention that _very significant_ responsibility.
I enjoy working with distributed storage systems, but I don't think I will ever carry a pager for one again. I wish the industry could figure out how to separate designing and building such systems, from giving up your nights and weekends to operate them.
Separating design and build from operate is antithetical to Amazon. It isn’t a “figure out” for a lot of companies including Amazon — it’s very intentional and seemingly unlikely to change. They’ve observed that they create a stronger culture of ownership (which then drives getting things fixed faster and more empathy for the customers) through having the builders also be the operators.
Still needs supportive management: there are teams at Amazon who have time to fix everything which paged them at anti-social hours, and there are teams which don’t prioritize beyond minding the SLA of their COE Action Items, and more silently accrue operational debt and page people more often. Tricky balance to be sure.
Even the ‘SRE’ or ‘PE’ approaches you see at Google and Meta don’t obviate the need for development teams to have on-call rotations. At least in “BigTech” where teams operate services instead of shipping shrink-wrapped software it’s becoming rare to NOT see some on-call responsibility with engineering roles (including management). I suppose it isn’t just on-call, and the other big change in BigTech of the last decade was the somewhat widespread elimination of QA teams and SDET roles, and the merger of those responsibilities into the feature/service teams, and to SDE.
There's different schools of thought around this and I certainly understand your perspective. At AWS, carrying a pager at limited times (in our team, 2-3 weeks per quarter as mentioned in the link) is considered an important part of our culture of operating at-scale services. In our team, we try to minimize oncall burden as much as possible by investing in automation, and only alarm if the system really doesn't know what to do. We have a separate planning bucket for burden reduction every quarter.
Other interesting thing to mention is that as an SDE you're not the only one that has oncall duties. In our team at least, PMTs are also oncall for about the same time. This creates a good dynamic as everyone is incentivized to minimize the oncall burden.
Sort of. Many teams in FAANG put their devs on rotations that aren't full on-call like SRE (and some managers put their devs into full SRE rotations without mentioning there is a bonus). I always check with my future managers that they don't plan to do this.
Mainly after. Metaweb brought MQL with them, which ran on their own single server graphd, which was eventually shutdown.
Warren started working on PathQuery as a replacement for MQL. PathQuery was originally executed on Pregel and was far from a realtime query language.
A realtime query engine was later developed for PathQuery in the search stack so interesting search queries could be answered a la minute from the Knowledge Graph, rather than just pre-generating results for a limited class of queries.
This was all done in the 2012-2013 timeframe. Most of the people involved are long gone.
Definitely not graphd. Maybe Livegraph? I forget what the project was called, but it was the first realtime query engine built for the Knowledge Graph and it used PathQuery as the query language.
Both this article and the ACLU report it's based upon are ridiculously misleading. You don't get arrested for owing a debt. You get a bench warrant issued for not showing up to court when you've been ordered to do so.
Debt collectors sue to get a court judgement against people who won't otherwise pay, so they can use the power of the state to garnish wages, levy bank accounts, etc. It's no surprise that they win in court. The debts are usually valid. It doesn't help debtors' cases when they don't show up. Then they get a default judgement.
Even with a judgement against you, you still won't get arrested for not paying. But if you don't, the creditor can then request a debtor's examination to which the court requires you to show up. At the examination, you'll be asked about your assets and income, so the creditor knows how to collect by force.
What happens if you don't show up to a debtor's examination? The creditor can ask the judge for a bench warrant against you. What happens next depends on the state and county. Sometimes the sheriff knocks on your door and gives you a piece of paper telling you to come to court, or else. Sometimes they do nothing until you get pulled over for some other reason and the warrant comes up.
In any case, what's happening to some people is that they're being sued over debts they owe, not showing up to court to defend themselves, getting default judgements against them, still not paying, getting summoned to court for a debtor's examination, not showing up for that, and then getting a bench warrant issued.
If you don't show up for jury duty, the judge can issue a bench warrant. They probably won't, but they can. If you get subpoenaed and don't show up, bench warrant.
All this is to say that far from the courts criminalizing debt or being manipulated by debt collectors, they are simply acting in their capacity to enforce civil judgements. You know, the seventh amendment? Suits at common law?
Nothing you just said is at odds with the article. The problem is that people are spending time in jail (via the process you describe) because of civil debts that can fall into one of the following categories:
(a) debts of small sums
(b) with insufficient evidence that a debt is actually owed (apparently hoping that the defendant won't be able to competently defend themselves.)
(c) with insufficient notice to the defendant (apparently, this is the plaintiff's responsibility in some jurisdictions.)
(d) with insufficient consideration for the defendant's situation (i.e, physical or mental disability, single parents that cannot afford childcare, etc.)
It seems self evident that these situations are unjust and that reforming the process is desirable, wouldn't you agree?
You're describing our justice system in general. When anyone of low income is even accused of a crime or is fined an even small amount of money, it snowballs into a much larger issue because of their inability to pay, take off work, find childcare, etc. It seems like our justice system is designed to be fair only to stable, healthy, and wealthy people. For example I got a speeding ticket in VA which ended up being a reckless driving charge, an actual CRIME in VA. Because I was able to hire a lawyer, I got it reduced to simple speeding. The woman before me without a lawyer, doing tbe same exact speed as me, got convicted of the reckless driving charge because she dared to waive her right to an attorney snd roll the dice. Well she lost, but this made me feel disgusted.
I disagree with you premise. People are spending time in jail for not showing up to court, not because of their debts. And even jail time is pretty rare for a bench warrant.
Of the situations you listed, the only valid reason for not showing up to court is because you weren't aware. But because the stakes are so high, judges in California require that parties have been personally served by a registered process server before they'll issue a bench warrant for not showing up to a debtor's examination. I assume other states are similar. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I actually think that the process that the courts have for enforcing judgements is much fairer than the tactics that debt collectors often resort to. There's a reason that laws like the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act exist.
> Of the situations you listed, the only valid reason for not showing up to court is because you weren't aware.
You are correct about the responsibilities of individuals, but that is not the only thing at stake. The system can be at fault for wrongly placing such responsibilities on people.
Consider the "with insufficient evidence that a debt is actually owed ..." part. Sure it is your duty in that case to turn up and get the thing dismissed. But the fact that you were forced to turn up means your freedom has already been compromised.
Small debts are also a symptom of a one-sided system. Civilised people usually settle small matters without going to the courts. Courts have to be making things pretty easy for creditors before that becomes a cost-effective way of collecting small debts.
>But the fact that you were forced to turn up means your freedom has already been compromised.
That is the cost of living in a civilized society where we can settle our conflicts before an impartial judge instead of by the law of the jungle. Anyone can sue you and make you (or your lawyer) show up in court.
>Small debts are also a symptom of a one-sided system. Civilised people usually settle small matters without going to the courts. Courts have to be making things pretty easy for creditors before that becomes a cost-effective way of collecting small debts.
If you make it harder for creditors to collect on small debts, then you will make it harder and more expensive for the poor to get access to credit.
"I'll give you $100 today if you pay me back $110 next week. And I don't care about your awful credit score." That's over 500% annualized interest, but it's not very unreasonable for an unsecured short term loan to a person with bad credit.
Then perhaps you ought to understand underlying motivations rather than seeing everyone 100% logical robots with complete awareness of situation.
Its not the rational and logical who use payday loans with similar interest. Its the single parent families. There's children involved, power threatened to being turned off. There's a car repair needed for they can work. You know, poverty.
And your excuses are just that- rational justification to fuck over poor people trying to make the best of bad answers.
If someone really needs a loan of $100 to keep the power from being turned off, is denying them a loan for $100 in the best interest of the children? I don't think so.
If you don't give them the loan, the power will definitely be turned off. If you give them the loan, they can pay the power bill.
If you're not allowed to make money helping poor people, there's very little incentive to do so.
The world didn't grow to the level of abundance that we have today by everybody agreeing to work for each other for free. We grew through voluntary, mutually-beneficial, exchange.
Many make less than the required minimum they need to survive in the USA, given things like dying vehicles and rotting residences and rising rent.
So it may cost $900/month to live total, but your fridge died and spoiled food. So its now $1000 cost, and at -$100. So you sell a part of yourself to a check cashing company and go further in debt. But you can eat. Who knows what next week will be like.
Thats being in poverty. Sure we can make excuses that "its for providing loans". Yeah, but they are extracting what little the people in poverty have for a little bit more skin.
And that's absolutely unethical. Well, unless you work in that industry.
> That is the cost of living in a civilized society where we can settle our conflicts before an impartial judge instead of by the law of the jungle. Anyone can sue you and make you (or your lawyer) show up in court.
But in a healthy system, it only happens when they have a substantial claim and a real belief they will win; because otherwise it is costly to them. There are normally strong incentives to settle privately.
And that too is part-and-parcel of living in a civilised society. The rule of law requires that officials, or those who influence them, do so in an orderly way and don't just wield it like a stick.
Well, that's what the article is about. Even if it's "pretty rare" it's not rare enough.
It also specifically states that many times people were jailed without even being aware that there was a suit against them. This implies that many jurisdictions do not require a formal serve process, since that process is designed explicitly to prevent this situation.
But the broader issue is that even if it is "their own fault" for missing court, a tiny amount of debt combined with a failure (intentional or accidental) to adequately navigate the legal system can land you in jail.
I think the ACLU's contention is that that is, a priori, wrong. And I think anyone with an ounce of empathy would agree with them.
Ah, the old "You aren't the boss of me!" objection. Rejecting the [very, very obvious to millions of your peers] authority on the ground might cause one to question one's sanity.
That said, I do understand that in some circumstances it might be the sane thing to do: for example when 99.99% of everyone else is wrong and you are right. For example; advocating for your rights as a woman in a strict Muslim country.
The bit in here that seems unnecessary is the "debtor's examination" and subsequent arrest; neither of the UK debt recovery systems have a provision for forcing people to come to court, and it doesn't seem necessary anyway. If you fail to show up to the court process at which a debt judgement is made against you, then the bailiffs can go to work. But you can't be arrested.
The issue is not debt here, it's not showing up for a court date. The exact same thing would happen if you got a ticket and had to appear before a judge and didn't show. Or if you had a child custody trial and just blew off the date.
> In any case, what's happening to some people is that they're being sued over debts they owe, not showing up to court to defend themselves, getting default judgements against them, still not paying, getting summoned to court for a debtor's examination, not showing up for that, and then getting a bench warrant issued.
> If you don't show up for jury duty, the judge can issue a bench warrant. They probably won't, but they can. If you get subpoenaed and don't show up, bench warrant.
For starters, instead of throwing people in jail for missing the debtors examination, they can complete it without your input. They can already garnish your wages or look at the last tax filing so there is enough information for a rudimentary examination.
I think you're missing that next logical leap though. Courts generally have hours from 9-12pm and 1-4pm. I'm going to make the assumption that a significant percentage of people that end up having a bench warrant issued for owing debts are those on the low end of the income scale, generally service and retail jobs. These jobs are generally the most inflexible in terms of scheduling. Also, consider that some of these people may be transient and/or homeless (From sleeping on a relative's, friend's etc. couch or sleeping on the streets) Your options then come down to: 1) Go to court and risk losing your job if you do not have an understanding employer, which can snowball into losing housing 2) Get a lawyer 3) Take the hit to your credit score, make whatever payments one can on the debt, hope for the best but cross the bridge when it comes to it and focus on more immediate concerns.
> If you don't show up for jury duty, the judge can issue a bench warrant.
Employers are legally obliged to excuse you for jury duty so the comparison is not that apt.
Siderant: It is somewhat ridiculous that the whole court shuts down for lunch instead of staggering schedules, especially when often that is the only time that people can show up to court. Those who can afford to do so generally send a lawyer, who get their own special line to save their time.
If you owe a debt, you are already penalized with collection costs and a penalty to your credit score (In my not heavily researched position, that should be enough. People who take on debts like these often are not financially literate. Anecdotally, I've also found it a bit surprising the number of people who do not understand expoentiation, thus making it nearly impossible for them to truly comprehend compounded interest rates). Not only are these people being penalized multiple times for the same issue, it's enforcment is being subsidized by taxpayers. They're also being criminalized, endure the trauma and mental, if not physical, torture, and be subjected to the detrimental health consequences of a prison diet (which only seems to require a minimum number of calories as its nutrition requirement) that is the American prison system. Not to mention the stigma and reduced employment opportunities that come with being a part of that system
I have the opinion that it is morally unconscionable. Whatever technically sends them to jail, the issue originates from an unpaid debt and has a chance to cascade down to jail. You're criminalizing people for unpaid debts while those with means can engage in the exact behavior, but through the use legal instruments can declare bankruptcy or take on the debts through a fictitious entity with a limited liability (often both). It's literally just a stroke of a pen (incorporation of an llc or other fictitious entity via our legal system. For me, it's a ritualized incantation of a magic spell) that separates the two. If these loans are so risky that they need this kind of enforcement to be profitable, perhaps its removal would mean that some of these loans are not made in the first place. Also, time spent in jail does nothing towards the actual debt, but that is once again subsidized by taxpayers. (I assume that they’re in jail for failure to appear, so after they get out and most likely have lost their job and will find it harder to get a new one, and after all these punitive measures nothing still has gone towards the principal).
TL;DR: It sucks being poor. It really sucks in America to be poor [1]
What will likely happen, at least in California, is that the clerk will schedule all of the Equifax cases for the same day and the judge will hear them all at once, like a little miniature class action.
Yes. And that's the way around restrictions on class actions. Where the victims are identified and cooperating, and the cases are very similar, it works. There are some lawyers using this strategy. Huge numbers of cases are filed, they're all consolidated by a judge, and the end result is a suit on the merits.
The filing service needs to do more of the work, like shipping the paperwork off in bulk to a process server company to be formally delivered in daily batches.
Interesting data point for the question: at what point in your career will you stop being asked to write code on a whiteboard to prove you aren't lying on your resume.