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If you are right, then his point about discriminating is moot. Seems more like he can't find a job he wants, and dismiss others that would be happy to hire him.

I can say: "I want to work in Haskel, making games for the Wii U, from home, for 3 hours a day only". No matter what my experience, I won't be hired anytime soon.


It is not remotely moot.

Noah (owennoah) posted some magnificent suggestions to a very serious endemic problem affecting millions of job seekers and hurting employer's ability to find good talent. But the reply to him is a vaguely victim blaming rant pointing out Michael's specific flaws based on subjective impressions of some things seen on the web.

A pointless response is bad enough but a destructive one simply boggles the mind.


I apologize for that. I was trying to find other reasons that he might have finding a job other than his mental illness based on things he posted on his diaries and blogs on other websites.

There is also a factor of things found on Googling his name that are other than his mental illness essay.

I was posting those things to help him understand that there are other factors besides a mental illness that interviewers look at. I had hoped it would show how to over come that, and find a job. But I don't know of any solutions to it other than to get negative articles about him removed from the Internet, or create his own positive articles and SEO them over the bad articles. A reputation website might help with that.

Well all have flaws, sometimes we don't admit to them and don't learn from them and fix them. Many are in denial of them. Nobody is perfect, and in some cases you have to take a job using a technology you don't like to pay the bills because nothing else is available. I spent a decade with Windows and Visual BASIC, people laughed at Visual BASIC at the time, but I got paid money to develop in it. There are people who had ethics that Microsoft was corrupt so they refused to use Windows and Visual BASIC, but a lot of jobs at the time were for Microsoft IT shops. Those people who refused to use Microsoft tools due to ethics went without work. Some projects were short and didn't have a lasting value and some people refused to do them as well and went without work.

Myself I can learn almost any language or OS out there, I see them as tools and I don't hate one and love the others. I was able to find work because I wasn't picky about the tools or OS.


You are both right though. 1) Discrimination is real and should be discouraged and may indeed have affected Michael's chances at finding work but ferreting out discrimination and fixing its isn't a great use of an individual job seekers' time when so many other people can use good workers but 2) if the points about his choosiness are true-- and I don't know if they are-- they would probably affect things as well in a way he is refusing to acknowledge. But again, I don't know Michael so I want to move away from that. Because a larger point can be made here: this would be an example of how MANY people have blinders to their own reasons they aren't finding work-- and certainly not only people who blog about their personal problems.

I get this all the time. Every excuse in the book and then I ask: "Did you follow up?" "No." "Did you send a physical letter or make a physical cold call, or even a telephone phone call-- something to break through the noise?" "No." And then I prod them to do those things and they don't. An unfortunate part about the job search is that its a sales process and many people don't require sales skills to do many jobs yet suddenly we expect them to sprout sales skills like wings when suddenly its time to look for work, often when they are at their most vulnerable moment-- the time they NEED that job. It's a cruel farce. But there are ways around it.

That's why I talk about exploding toilets-- a lot of companies just need the work done. Ask any sleazy late-night locksmith if he works on his sales skills. No, he has the tool you need when you are locked out of your apartment at 3am. You want him or not? Fortunately or unfortunately, there are enough exploding toilets out there that job seekers who really want to fix problems don't have to worry too much about navigating the job search as a sale-- they just have to get some attention. But in order to get attention, they need to want to get it and that's often a bigger problem than you know b/c most people don't want to fail or risk looking ridiculous, as if these people they are contacting will even remember them-- and then they create excuses for why they can't and often blame others.

But again, back to the original point: the reason we think is the problem often isn't so trying to deconstruct it is pointless. It's like dating. If someone isn't a match, move on. Someone out there wants you desperately-- but only if you want to help them and can.


There is also this article on him disrupting a hackathon:

http://blog.up.co/2012/04/30/not-even-bmob-threats-could-det...

https://twitter.com/dhawalc/status/209088242094571520/photo/...

Not saying it is true or false, but they show up in a Google search. They could be a factor.

I also found this tweet: https://twitter.com/MisterMarkup/status/196368916501626881

Edit: Added Tweet


I was lecturing the Portland Startup Weekend on engineering ethics. My point was that unethical practices such as those exhibited by the Portland Startup Weekend lead to such practices as industrial control systems that have laughably weak security.


They seem to have taken your comments out of context then.

One more, from a dead website: https://web.archive.org/web/20120505130855/http://mobile.ore...

A person who does Interviews who Googles your name will uncover this sort of stuff. They will read it and not give you the benefit of the doubt. You won't get a chance to explain that you were talking about sloppy practices that lead to industrial accidents.

Instead they will read where you got ejected from hackathons for allegedly making bomb threats, and then move on to the next candidate.

I think this is a big factor in why you don't get jobs and contracts.

You also exposed the software consultant problem of not being paid on CNN during that Joe Stack event: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhLV7jydPJ8

If an interviewer had watched that show, they could have a negative view of you and remember you had exposed the software consulting industry of being a hard life and not always being paid.

You have been a critic of the startup scene, you have been a critic of the software consultant career, you have been a critic of so many things that it gives you a negative reputation with recruiters and interviewers. All of this is revealed by a few Google searches of your name. On top of that you are very picky on what company you work for and what development tools and OS you will use. These things are seen as being negative, and recruiters and interviewers want to see positive things, people not complaining about the industry but instead solving problems and working with others as part of a team.

All of these things raise red flags and prevent you from being hired. The major factors are not your mental illness, but these other things that can be revealed by Google and other search engines. There is also a criminal and financial/credit background check that employers/contractors/clients do prior to hiring that also has to be done. They will see that the police ejected you from Hacker Dojo etc, and see the times when you were without money and owing back debt and back taxes. If they see you have bad credit, they might worry that you are more likely to steal from the company. This is true for federal background checks for government contracts.

Those things are what I uncovered with just a simple Google search, and I sure there is more that can be found.

Your essay on your mental health: http://www.warplife.com/mdc/books/schizoaffective-disorder/

It is the least of your worries.

You also point out that the software problem isn't about bugs, it is about human beings. Which is kind of controversial:

http://www.warplife.com/jonathan-swift/books/software-proble...

Some people adopt the philosophy of a stoic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoicism

They don't complain about things, they study problems and how to solve them with logic. When you discover a problem, you don't criticize the industry, you don't get negative, you work on a solution and stay positive and stay in a good mood instead of a bad mood. When you discover a problem, it is an opportunity for you to find a way to solve it. This is how many people have become a success, and how many startups get founded.

I think you are misunderstood, I think you have a great amount of knowledge, I think clients miss out when they reject you, but you have a negative image on the Internet and in real life that just drives people away from you.

I myself deal with negative thoughts, when I write something criticizing something or being negative here on hacker news I get downvoted. I have to remember that I should stay positive and find solutions to a problem if I discover a problem. It is positivism and creativity that I need to be focused on, and so should you.

Edit: typos and better analysis and advice.


But they pay pennies compared to London. What you save on rent you lose on income.

I get a lot of recruiter spam from UK recruiters, but truth be told, don't think I've ever got an email where the minimum offered was lower than £45k for London while for anywhere else the maximum range was £45-50k


Quick question since you have a few kids. Is real Wyoming a good place for them in terms of school and future? (really asking, no idea as I live on the other side of the pond).

I work from home so I can move anywhere, and a more rural/calm place, earning less and having more time does appeal to me, but all the good schools here are in the city and I'm not brave enough to risk my kids future on my dreams of today.


I think that our local schools are about as good as government education can get. My kids' classes range from 11 to 14 students so they get lots of 1-on-1 time with a teacher. The teachers provide extra challenges for exceptional students. The teachers and school administration are very responsive to feedback from parents. Students graduating from high school with good grades get a full scholarship to the University of Wyoming, if they want it.

Having said that, my wife and I place much more emphasis on independent learning and life experiences than on formal schooling. Because my wife and I have plenty of time, we are able to encourage their education in ways we couldn't if we lived in an expensive city. Our lower living expenses also allow us to take trips and have experiences that we feel are more valuable than book learning.


Wyoming is the least populous state in the US, it's not small either. I've driven through Wyoming and Casper it's largest city. One could call it desolate meaning very little human habitation. Or one could call it a paradise on the plains depending on your perspective. Either way, there ain't shit there. Edit: Other than Yellowstone that is.


See, this is where 'different strokes' thing comes in handy. I HATE HATE HATE pair programming. If you tell me I have to do 1 hour of pair programming on a job interview, I won't go. Not because I'll get nervous or anything, I just don't like a few things about it, a couple:

a) I hate having people in my personal space I don't know well. It may seem I'm being an asshole, but I'm very very very very sensitive to smells to the point that I can't concentrate. Your cologne or just body smell will probably be my number one focus throughout that hour.

b) while I don't have OCD/am a germaphobe, again I HATE HATE HATE using a keyboard that isn't new or mine. The stickiness of the keys, the dirt around them... makes me go crazy.

I always carry my laptop to interviews with me nowadays to at least avoid B.

So, for me, a whiteboard is great (for some reason, I don't care much about a dirty board/pens) and I do amazingly well on them. I also do very well in public speaking situations so maybe I'm just comfortable at that kind of interaction/distance.

I think the best is to truly ask the person what they prefer. If they want a laptop, great, if a whiteboard, cool as well, I've done both both as an interviewer and interviewee, and noticed that as well, some people prefer a whiteboard, others a laptop. Give them what they are more comfortable with.


Pair programming physically side by side is not great. Pair programming or integrating/coding together remote over Skype/Gotomeeting/etc screen sharing is great when needed.

It is like having another programmer in your head and you can't see each other type so there are less jibs/jabs. Plus both people can eat, drink, do things rather than just stand around one workstation like people did with TV in the 50s and one person can't see the screen.

I can't remember the last time I pair programmed in person over remote even in the same office/building. Occasionally you need to be in the same room or desk to draw something up but mostly it is more efficient remotely especially during an integration.

Pair programming remotely is like "hey you got a bug on line 441", pair programming side by side physically is like "dude you got a bug down there, btw just just use this hotkey" or doesn't even see it because you can't see the screen.


I agree. I work remotely and do this a lot with team members, but when people suggest pair programming, they are (usually) referring to 2 seats on 1 keyboard kind of thing, which I hate and would probably quit if I had to do it on a day to day basis.


For me, StackExchange's 'reputation' is inversely correlated with that.

Don't want to attack the contributors, but honestly, the higher levels of reputation just either show me that he either has too much free time outside of work (valid, but doubtful) or they spend work time answering questions, which for me goes against the 10x productivity programmer mantra.


You move to Europe? ;)


I think there are two options that play in your favour:

a) be honest, but when they ask (and they will) why you are leaving the current company, say you know they are paying their employees way below market rate. This allows you to tell the truth, but points out to the recruiter you will not take you current salary + 5%

b) redirect the question to "While I make X, I'm discussing the move with other companies and have offers for X+Y". This accomplishes two things, puts a premium on you (other companies are already interested you) and lets the recruiter know how much they will have to offer you to accept their offer.

Of course, you need to be ready for the conversation to fall through at this point, but you should always be ready for that anyway ;)


I fully agree with that sentiment.

I have a lot of non-tech folks ask me about money (when they ask me what I do and if it pays well) and I always try to avoid giving numbers and go with a more generic 'I can't complain, things are ok/good'. I earn a lot (and I mean a lot) compared to non-tech folks where I live: 20x difference in some cases. I had a friend recently in a conversation mentioning that buying X (one of those cheap android tablets for kids) as a birthday present was 3 days worth of her work. In my case, it is less than 1.5 hours of my work.

I'm very happy for earning these values, and I try to give back when I can, pick up the bill here and there (enough to help, but not enough for people to resent it) but I know we developers are quite lucky with the luck of the draw we got in this little slice of time and IMO, we should be more considerate of others in these cases.


I feel the same way as a 2012 college graduate. Most of my college friends are still unemployed or working in marginal work (temps, office admins, phone support). On top of that, most are buried in student loans (private college) whereas I had parents able to pick up the tab. More than one has turned to webcam porn to make money while I'm charging $$$ as a software contractor.

I post photos on Facebook from Tokyo or Berlin and sometimes wonder if I'm pissing off my friends.


Sorry for the late reply.

I don't think you should stop posting photos from your trips just because you are 'afraid' you will be pissing off your friends. They can always unfollow you (or whatever FB allows you to do, I'm not big on social networks) if they find it 'offensive'. I just think it is a balancing act between sharing parts of your life, and sharing absolute numbers or boasting.

Anyone that knows me for more than 5 minutes, knows I'm doing well (I live in a nice place, in a very expensive area for example and I don't hide this), but at the same time, I avoid letting (outside of very close friends) people know how well exactly. I never talk about money or salaries or what not. That doesn't mean I won't invite them over for dinner/a swim in the pool just in case I 'piss them off'.


Things are better on the company/bureaucracy front. Not as good as US/UK where you can do everything online, but it is 90% there. As for the tax climate, corporate tax has come down quite a bit (and is quite low compared to rest of Europe) but personal tax is a pain.

I think the main issue with Portugal, startup wise, is the people. We (as a nation) are very risk adverse and scared. There are many logical reasons for that that I won't get into the details here, but on the technical level, our graduates are quite good and salaries/cost of living are low. A typical YC investment on a Portuguese company would probably give them about one year of runway without any further investment.


In a nutshell: Rails isn't shinny anymore. By migrating from (now) old Rails to new shiny Go, people can write these kinds of articles and pretend to be cutting edge and forward thinking.


its a bit more complicated than not being shiny anymore. For a lot of veterans, what's touted as best practices in the Rails community lead to maintenance headaches and performance issues in large scale long-lived applications. Rails apps tend to have a high degree of coupling internally and to gems that Just Work™ (except for when they Just Don't™).


Also, as the industry has shifted away from monolithic web frameworks to tightly controlled 'microservices' then the relevance of something as heavy as RoR wanes.


Right, although personally I think there'll be a heavy backlash against microservices (that's already begun in some circles.)


Yeah, the whole industry cycles between ideals; each generation rediscovering the benefits and drawbacks of each. Hence the renaissance of event driven applications.

It's all good. Go with the flow and learn. ;)


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