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there are a ton of people working at burger king or other restaurants, street vendors, bus ticket attendants, broadway ushers, and busboys that make less than that in nyc

Its certainly not impossible. 15$ an hour is pretty good.




It's one thing to make sweeping statements about welfare of others and quite another to realistically look at what that means. I am nitpicking here but let's go over your list... I am going to break it down to how it really is in NYC (I presume LA is not that dissimilar):

burger king workers - unhappiest people you'll see anywhere... excepting teens and other temporary situations, completely unemployable outside the fast food industry

street vendors - mostly cash income, probably make more than reported $15/hour, probably have other jobs to support them through the cold winter months

bus workers - unionized, make up to $70k/year

broadway ushers - mostly volunteers or actors who only work until they "make it" and only to network with other theater people

busboys - mostly illegal mexicans with little other choice, excepting some high end restaurants where they make more than $15/hour and do it as an apprenticeship to better paying jobs

I think most people who say that $15/hour in a major city like New York or LA is pretty good would not themselves concede to subsist on that little while working that hard... and I know what I am talking about, having done some of those hard-labor jobs when I first immigrated into the US. It only works in temporary situations such as students or apprenticeships, or as a means to support higher artistic aspirations.

I would bet all of my money that not a single person on here (including those 6 who upvoted your comment) would choose a career of a $15/hour laborer for themselves, and I think it's a little patronizing to say that it's ok for others.


I agree with your post, but I think it's disingenuous to say that $15 is unacceptable because the rest of us won't accept it. My first job after moving out was $15/hr (though not in NYC, makes a difference), and while things were tough it was survivable.

Would I go back to that job? Hell no. Hauling literally tons of crates around a factory floor each day, climbing inside freezing semi trailers in the dead of the Canadian winter... all for that kind of pay? No thanks.

But that doesn't mean the pay is necessarily bad for someone who, unlike my fortunate self, has no choice in his jobs.

I do agree though - in the context of NY or LA, $15 is not a survivable wage. It's the kind of wage that keeps you alive, but also keeps you trapped in your dead-end job forever.


Unless that wage also includes health care, loans you transportation (in this case, Bikes, but its better than nothing), and lets you attend English classes, which could translate to a valuable job skill.

(I'm not saying that migrants/immigrants can't survive in our culture without English, but being able to speak English well might allow them to find careers they otherwise couldn't.)

Also, keep in mind that workers get paid for any ideas they come up with that save the company money or create a new product. They'll also get paid if they're used a model. So there are side-opportunities.

In the end, it boils down to treatment. Sure, its not a great, glamorous job -- making clothing -- but they're treated well compared to their contemporaries in the industry. At the end of the day, a 50K job coding is a 50K job coding, but I think we'd all rather work at the place that has free back massages and a ball pit.


I would choose a career of a $15/hour laborer for myself. That's more than I make now, or will make with my current opportunities for advancement.

So, can I have all of your money now? Or would you like me to direct you to a charity to which you can donate it on my behalf?


So, you obviously know how to use the computer but you would choose hard labor for $15/hour when you can easily at the very worst temp for $20/hour sitting in a comfortable chair?

Why?


So you made a stupid claim and were wrong and you're trying to change the subject by making an even dumber claim?

Why?


Also, you can send all of your money here: http://maketheroad.org/ or here: http://www.pathwaystohousing.org/


"I think it's a little patronizing to say that it's ok for others"

Ok? What does that mean? If the market value of someone's work is less than or equal to $15/hour, then $15/hour is a fair price for it.

Surely there is nothing more patronizing than to suggest that people should be paid some arbitrary amount that seems appropriate to you, rather than the actual value of the work they do.


Couldn't agree with you more. Not what the discussion was about though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man




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