If anyone's interested and wants to hear more, I have a mix of 92/93 era Jungle [1]
Some rough mixes here and there (especially the first one) because it was live from a NYE event. But it suits the style of music, that era was so raw and fresh, the future was being invented right there! Very happy days :)
> that era was so raw and fresh, the future was being invented right there! Very happy days
I've been told by several Gen-Z that they've never been to a "rave", and I feel sorry for them. In my town, we had quite the underground scene, but then times changed and it is so much smaller now. Now, "kids" just call it all EDM instead of the specific genre that we know and love.
There's still plenty of fresh underground music and the 'kids' are doing just fine. Yeah there's loads of mainstream garbage out there, but there always was. The main difference is that this stuff was being invented, whereas most electronic music now is derived from those early 90s invented genres, but even saying that there's still plenty of creativity.
There's a night in London called Cartulis (which is usually at Fold), when I go there it feels very much like the early rave scene to me (this is just one example, of course). I think there's a tendency when we get older to not be as exposed to the bubbling undercurrent of music, so it's easy to just say "it's not as good as it used to be", but that would be a mistake imho. It's there if you look for it.
I feel like with each new wave of music technology, people basically search the space for a while until the fruitful sub spaces are identified.
The novelty of the exploration is what is there the first time and not there in the future. You don’t know what’s going to sound good until someone happens to bump into it. You get surprises.
that new wave of technology meant that anyone with access to warez could create music for $0 instead of the thousands on buying synths and samplers. no more renting a truck to haul that gear to a gig; now it's just a laptop and/or tablet. new choons level achieved
I'm interested in a lot of subculture music, and it really isn't there like it was for the most part. Most families of music seem to have stagnated or regressed. The early 90s gangster rap is definitely superior to mumble rap/emo rap, the 90s IDM/jungle/trance is superior to modern EDM/house/trap and the pop mainstream now is just garbage compared to the the mainstream from the late 80s/90s.
Mixing and production are worlds better and musicianship has improved compared to where it was for genres where people care about musicianship, but the actual music is mostly either painfully derivative or actively worse because it's trying too hard to be "different."
Modern metal is amazing compared to the stuff from the 90s though.
I agree with you as far as Hip-Hop quality goes (assuming that "gangster" encompasses things like Old School East Coast, G-Funk, etc). There was a beauty in how limited the production assets of Hip-Hop were in those days, which fostered a very special kind of creativity. Not to mention how it intermixed with the afro-zeitgeist of that time.
But for example techno and house these days have such a gargantuan amount of variety. And because those genres were digital-ish to begin with, they didn't suffer as much from the evolution of DAWs compared to some other genres.
I don't agree. There are so many niche genres now that have never existed before, e.g. vaporwave, phonk, outrun, twee, etc. Gotta dig deeper. There is tons of fresh and original underground music being made still.
As a fan of both, I have to admit vaporwave and twee are both dead genres - although vaporwave has spawned a host of successor stuff, the great innovation there all happened a decade and more ago. Twee will always exist, but it's hardly a great example of a lively scene.
Long gone are the days of "shoes in the dryer" mixes where guys were just slamming two DATs together with no pitch control. Sadly, I think we've gotten to the point of those tight mixes being less of the skill of the DJ and the result of software. With everything being done on laptops with cool software, I really wonder how many DJs are even mixing and just performing while a premixed file plays.
But as you say, the production quality has definitely improved. The music is just clean with no quality loss from layering/multi-tracking/bouncing. The concept of the space between notes has never been so distinguished.
Honestly as someone that learnt to mix many years ago on vinyl, the technical skill required to do this well doesn't translate into a better experience for the people dancing. It's not a rock concert with a performer, there's no need to look at the DJ anyway. I care infinitely more about the DJs creative sensibility than their beatmatching skill.
99.99999% of DJs have been performing a premade mix since iPods have become popular. The knob twiddling DJs are hilarious. Ukraine, oddly, seems to be pumping out tons of attractive women dancing off beat behind setups that aren’t even powered on half the time on YouTube. I enjoy the mixes in the background while working and occasionally watch some footage for the laughs. Shake it if you’ve got it.
As always, it depends on what style you're talking about. For mainstream EDM? Sure I won't fight your figure. But for underground techno (among many others), you're delusional if you think the majority of djs play pre-recorded mixes.
I'm not going spend my time collating links to help you when you say it like that. They're not unicorns. Nobody in the techno scene plays pre recorded sets and women are no more liable to do it than men. I'm sorry that you're uninformed and sexist. Maybe change your attitude a bit and we can talk.
I miss the days of the regional scenes in music. These seem to be long past us now.
Using metal as an example; the 80’s and 90’s as an example had several distinct vibrant scenes, Bergen’s Black Metal, Gothenburg’s Melodeath, Tampa Bay’s Death Metal, as examples. All distinct and vibrant with a period of sustained development with a cluster of artists who seemed to circulate and work off each other.
Today it feels easier to connect with others globally with music genres we like, but it’s almost as if this homogenises the art we produce in a sense.
A core collection of 20-40 artists and musicians working and operating in isolation (comparative to now), sharing what they enjoy, spinning it and innovating it to something new.
To genericise it and bring it back to the core of this place - In a sense one relate these scenes in a way to areas with a particularly strong start-up scene, albeit more freeform and wholly artistic in their endeavours.
Fr. Don't know why you're getting downvoted. The bitter people in this comment section who think electronic music died in the 90s clearly wouldn't know a good club if it slapped them in the face and it shows.
Again. Going to a festival does not mean you're going to a good one. Most of the best music happens in clubs in the underground circuit anyway not at "burns", which sounds like the most gentrified, millenial techbro yuppie garbage I've ever heard and I'm unsurprised you're not finding the bleeding edge of underground rave music there.
The key word is GOOD. Not that you just go places bro. You're clearly unsatisfied with the music you're hearing at these events. SO FIND BETTER ONES.
To be fair, regional burns are basically Burning Man without the techbro yuppie contingent. A lot more randos, hippies, and weirdos. More like summer camp for grownups than a place to show off on IG or whatever people use these days.
*(Caveat, haven't been to one in the last 5 or 6 years so things may have changed. As always, "it was better next year!")
Tell me you're out of the loop without telling me you're out of the loop. As someone in my mid 20s, techno music is booming and it has zero EDM/house/trap influences. Everyone my age thinks EDM is cringe, it was a trend of 10 years ago. Go to actually underground sound clubs if you know where they are. I'm guessing you don't, because you're showing how ignorant you are of the scene. Some recently released tracks I picked up as a young techno DJ just in the last few weeks/months:
Bro talks to me like I don't know what Drumcode is. The biggest titan in techno music to the point that people literally call it "business techno" because it's so oversaturated. Yeah I know drumcode. I know who Derrick May is, I don't know what sort of thumb-sucking 14 year old you think you're talking to. Derrick May is not by any stretch of the imagination a purely minimal techno artist. He literally made Strings of Life which is one of the least fucking minimal things I've ever heard.
You're right, minimal techno is not the most popular form of techno right now. That's not a new thing that happened in this decade though. Techno has been going through trends of being faster and more maximalist vs slower and minimalist since it began. I'm sorry that you're struggling to find minimal techno nights to your liking, I'm sure there are some out there and I'm sure the trend will come back around. But the techno of my generation is not all EDM or trap influenced so I know you're talking out your ass. You may have been to many techno events in your life, but what you're saying here just proves you're out of the loop like many nostalgic oldheads. So maybe just take a step back and consider that you may have lost touch with the underground. You certainly have if you think drumcode is an underground reference these days.
When you're condescending and make bad faith arguments, people will find you frustrating. I'm not sure why you want to emulate your grandparents by dismissing younger people's creativity just like they did to you. Open your mind a bit and try not to become the people you hated.
Edit: Festivals have never been the beating heart of the techno scene my friend. I'm sorry to break it to you. And again, I've been to good festivals which do play this stuff - you clearly don't know where to go and you're taking it out on my generation when its on YOU.
Given when/where you were, you might be familiar with Global Underground. I was excited to learn recently that they relaunched in the past couple years www.globalunderground.co.uk
Global Underground never entirely went away. However, the famous label run by the “Boxed brothers” ran into severe financial difficulties in the early millennium. Since then, I have assumed that Global Underground is a mere brand that any prog-ish DJ can pay money to use, to aid in promotion.
I didn't intend someone taking away from that no fresh music was being made. I simply said that the parties of old are no longer happening, so that experience isn't available to them.
I'm constantly listening to new music, and I've come up with lots of new tracks that will make a helluva set list, one day. Problem I have is only owning 1200s, and none of the gear to let those drive digital files. My discretionary funds for gear has evolved into other things so buying the right equipment gets pushed lower on the priority list
Rave culture is alive and well in the UK - free parties several days a week around Bristol and south Wales. Old heads and the younguns collaborating usually.
I can second Vancouver, and will raise you any big city in the USA - most of Latin America as well. Only thing that changes as usual is regionally based music tastes, though I find that people actually dance a hell of a lot more outside the anglosphere
Europe is a given but I hear Asia is popping off too. I have friends in Oceania who do some work around the scene. Really it's all over the world, people never stopped partying it just goes a little more underground here and there
Those are the best places these days. It sucks when clubs get closed in urban areas but there's still plenty of parties happening where you're bothering nobody, and nobody will bother you.
I think I'm at the age where I'm more interested in participating as someone actually creating part of the entertainment if I'm going to feel like I'm having the best time though, I think that's probably the best way for anyone to get into it. Lots of volunteer opportunities at festivals and of course paid gigs you can do. If you're a programmer, maybe getting deep into visuals is a way you can have some fun contributing too.
There are raves happening in warzones and even places you think there would be authoritarian crackdowns like China
Follow artist socials, they will promote themselves at gigs. Search for your town name + edm genre on soundcloud, that may tell you the names of regular festivals,events and club nights from the set names. Follow said venue's socials, or regularly check their website for upcoming events.
Figure out who your local promoters are, & follow their socials also.
Go to a youth focused cafe or skate park, look at what event posters are being posted on the walls? Unsure if the kiddies still post bills for small events, honestly everything is on social media these days, and is where you should start once you've identified some names.
In my city, facebook is the most reliable way to discover events - we have very active promoters in the main '$city $genre scene' public fb groups.
In Seattle at least they do posters. Mostly in Cap Hill (the gay area). The super small stuff is generally social only but anything with an actual venue will pop up. 19hz is also a good resource, it's searchable and city specific.
I've not found that to be the case, though I'm only casually interested these days (too old to feel comfortable at most events, worried I'm more there to relive the good old days than a 'genuine' interest etc).
With dB festival gone, do people just hit up showbox or monkey loft shows and try to make friends?
19hz has a good listing of events. A lot of it is announced on Instagram or Telegram (or the old classic of looking at the fliers on the telephone poles of cap hill). Renegades still happen (the bridge has been a super popular spot) but that season is sorta over. I more favor the Kremwork (that's more my scene) or digital hardcore shows which seem to just pop up everywhere.
Awesome stuff thanks, as to kremwork I wasn't aware they'd survived little marias closing - glad to hear some culture is left in the city. Funny to hear of it via HN but hey small world.
It is. You want to give me your or buy me one? ;-) I never said it wasn't a thing, only that my discretionary fund for such things prevents me for purchasing them.
I was surprised to see Gen Z called out here specifically, though I guess it depends on where you live/grow up as well. I'd hazard to guess most of the millennials I know also haven't been to a rave!
I don't think there were any available in my hometown (or they were too underground for me to have ever heard about!), and there wasn't much exposure to electronic music at all, so it's not an experience I'd ever considered trying to find out how to have.
Just one person's anecdote, of course, but I wonder what the balance of generation vs. location is!
Can confirm. I imagine that it's highly localized, but the closest I got was dances at anime conventions and more mainstream venues that might play Jersey/Baltimore Club.
Per TFA, most of my exposure music that's now put under the EDM umbrella was through video games (DDR...). Also mix-discs curated from Limewire downloads, keygens, Windows Movie Maker AMVs, and the Newgrounds/Youtube/Bandcamp releases of amateur FruityLoops producers.
I suppose what might make this paradigm interesting to consider is that it means most of this music was a contributing element to some larger project, and not just something to enjoy on its own (though you could make the case that music at a rave is just a means to forging social and emotional connections). As such, there are a lot of songs that people my age will recognize immediately, and absolutely could not tell you who made them (just where they heard it first).
It's just the specific conversations I've had. I'm in the GenX group, and partied with lots of millennials. Based on that experience I just rolled millennials into the "hasRaved == true" category. While never attending a full on rave, my kid has at least attended our old park parties we'd throw during the day with permits and everything. She'd be an elder GenZ, so at least she was introduced to the concept. These other conversations I've had haven't even had that.
As a jungle fan since the 90s, don't spout that offensive nonsense ;)
Seriously, there are marked differences between the two other than BPM that make them sound very distinctive (and D&B typically boring to me as a result) - generally, jungle is heavily syncopated and makes more uses of chopped samples vs D&B which tends to be sequenced fairly straight and makes more use of programmed drums.
the local police here formed a Rave Task Force. it became very effective, and pretty much killed the scene. it got to the point where the cops would show up as the guys were unloading the PA from the truck. lots of cat and mouse games followed on trying to get past the cops. promoters even started lining up alternate locations to relocate if something got shut down. then the cops started threatening to use crack house laws to arrest the promoters for providing a place for drugs to be used. we don't have clubs to speak of and mainly just bars. we tried doing events at bars, but having to shut down at 2am is just a joke.
Yup, exactly this. In the city I'm thinking of it was a municipal bylaw allowing for obscene 5-figure fines for anyone organizing a rave, even it was just the DJ they grabbed. The scene withered after that.
It's just not a real rave until the cops cut the tunes and flip on the the house lights at 3AM. Then you get to run the gauntlet of berries and cherries while saucered and blowed. I do miss what I remember of the '90s.
Cops. Pfftt. Wait till it’s an outdoor event where the entire sheriff’s department rolls up, and all the deputies are holding shotguns watching everyone load back up in their cars to leave. Or when the ghetto bird is loitering overhead with the spot light just to scare the party kids.
I know the artist that made the image* used for the inside jacket for the Prodigy says it wasn’t about rave culture, but it’s still one of my favorite counter culture images.
That's always been the cycle. As key acts from any sub-genre are subsumed into increasingly polished, expensive, and bland, club nights, festivals, and tours that community will eventually bifurcate into a properly dodgy and fun underground again.
Damn! The Progression Session albums, the third one in particular, are absolutely amazing. When the album rolls in to Track #2, 'Big Bud - Pure', with him and DRS ... it's just magical.
Wild, have a great time! Low-key jealous. Passed so much time spinning Bukem and MC Conrad during long hacking sessions, made for a perfect atmosphere. Too bad you can’t see them together anymore, RIP.
Additionally, a lot of jungle music were produced on Amiga using the same tracker software as many demosceners (OctaMED, ProTracker, etc). Makes me curious of how many junglists were also active sceners :-)
Having a few random mixes of yours I've (somehow) collected over the years amongst others, I didn't expect to click through a random Soundcloud link and see your name.
One of the things I noticed with a bunch of the younger producers is that they make really nice tunes but they don't bother with the whole intro/outro thing so there's no buffer on either end of the track to mix the thing unless you go add them yourself before even attempting to get them in with a bunch of older choons meant for mixing. like this is great [1], but 1:34 minutes lmao what? On the other hand people who have been at it since the very early days are still quietly releasing alot, here's some secret dillinja cuts [2]
OP, the link you provided keeps redirecting me to the Google Play store to install the SoundCloud app, no matter what browser I use to open it. Could you please create a link which stays on the SoundCloud website? Not everyone wants to use apps on mobile just because some service wants to force you to use them.
In general please don't use Soundcloud to share music. It's complete shit. It doesn't even allow seeking unless you register for an account. At least Youtube is borderline usable without signing in.
Soundcloud is one of the last bastions of creator-driven music hosting - I’m happy to support the platform given how useful it is to the indie community. There’s a myriad of mixes and tunes on there that would simply never exist or be found on other platforms.
Are you kidding? Not only does YT push undesired video bloat when you just want to listen to audio, it also is ad-driven/-ladden. Basically using YT for audio and Let's Play binging is an Alzheimer/Boomer marker, and the signal to leave the party.
Is using uBlock Origin or NewPipe, which have made YouTube an ad-free experience for more years now than I can remember, a “Boomer marker”? Granted, it isn’t unusual to see claims in tech circles that younger generations today are less aware of certain customizations or certain forms of pirating content, but it would be a real shame.
Hell yeah, I've been listening to jungle mixes on YouTube since this summer and enjoying Jungle Fatigue on Bandcamp. My introduction to jungle-esque music was Toonami so it's been fun exploring this genre more.
Some rough mixes here and there (especially the first one) because it was live from a NYE event. But it suits the style of music, that era was so raw and fresh, the future was being invented right there! Very happy days :)
1) DJ SS - Intro
2) Higher Sense - Cold Fresh Air
3) Deep Blue - The Helicopter Tune
4) Roni Size - Time Stretch (93 Mix)
5) DMS & The Boneman X - Sweet Vibrations
6) Engineers Without Fears - Spiritual Aura
7) Omni Trio - Soul Promenade
8) Codename John - Kindred
9) Brainkillers - Screwface
10) Dubtronix - Fantasy (Remix)
11) M-Beat - Incredible
12) DJ Rap - Your Mind (Gimp/Steve Mix)
13) Asend & Ultravibe - What Kind Of World
14) LTJ Bukem – Horizons
15) Bruck Wild - Silent Dub
[1] https://on.soundcloud.com/WjQVyJRfYMyQLP3f8