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> If you truly believe that this is the supported medical intervention, then you should be able to find a clear explanation of this - including the adults who are giving the child these restrictions and this gendered-soul vocabulary - and the surgical interventions it requires. A doctor and their clinic should have this on their webpage and they should be proud of the work they do.

Believe it or not this information is extremely easy to find and the standards of care used by a huge number of practitioners (WPATH) are free to download and peruse at your leisure: https://www.wpath.org/publications/soc

As just one example, the Boston children's hospital has their Guidelines and Standards of Care listed in multiple places on their website. This of course did not help them avoid the avalanche of bomb threats they received from individuals who were presumably very concerned and willing to listen.

https://www.childrenshospital.org/programs/gender-services/p... https://www.childrenshospital.org/programs/center-gender-sur...




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I don't know any trans people who believe any of the things that you're suggesting they do. Literally every single one of your claims about what trans people believe are false; I count at least 7 distinct ones. (I can enumerate them if you'd like.) It's honestly impressive how little your world view overlaps with reality.

On another note, in this comment you mentioned the genitals of children and surgery on the genitals of children ten times. Given that genital surgery for children is not something that transgender activists are advocating for, I must ask you why you seem so fixated on the topic?


> Literally every single one of your claims about what trans people believe are false; I count at least 7 distinct ones. (I can enumerate them if you'd like.) It's honestly impressive how little your world view overlaps with reality.

Which trans people did I mention? I called out Susie Green and "Dr's" Kinsey and Money. If I didn't talk about trans people, just "doctors" and advocates, how could I be claiming anything about trans people's beliefs?

But sure, please do list out those mistaken beliefs you think I touched on.

> Given that genital surgery for children is not something that transgender activists are advocating for

If it isn't happening, why not just agree with me? If it doesn't need to happen, why not support laws banning it?

> I must ask you why you seem so fixated on the topic?

That's straight out of the narcissists prayer. "That doesn't happen, but if it does it's no big deal, and why do you care so much anyways?"

I'm a parent and this is infesting our schools. I care because I have had kids, I have been a kid, I have empathy for other people and their kids, I want useful schools, and I don't want my tax money spent hurting people.


"Advocates" is probably a better descriptor than mine tbh. Anyways, here's how I counted.

1. "cutting a boy's penis off is an appropriate treatment for liking dolls" - Not a position held by trans people or allies. We support the rights of transgender and cisgender people to be as gender-non-conforming as they like.

Note re: "transed her son because her husband wasn't happen with his 'girly' interests" - Having seen the talk she gave that you are referring to, she made no claim of the sort. Also, 'transed' is not a word that describes a coherent concept that exists.

2. "why does he then need further intervention to be that girl" - Nobody needs any interventions to be a girl. "Girl" is just a label.

3. "a child who wants to be a girl totally needs to lose his dick and the parents are Nazi's if they question it" - Advocates do not believe this. Trans adults can have SRS if they want it but it's not "required" for anything and it is not offered for children.

4. "Where is the research showing that children come up with 'gender dysphoria' without adult prompting them" - Most transgender adults were once transgender children. It's quite common to see them say on twitter, tumblr, etc. that nobody told them about gender dysphoria when they were young, and that they had to create their own vocabulary for it when they tried to explain their feelings to their parents.

5. "these are the words they'd use and the interventions that they'd have asked for without 'therapists'" - This one is just confusing. Of course they wouldn't use the same words and independently develop the same medical treatments we have now.

Note re: Money and Reimer: Money was influential in early study of transgender people, but it's important to note that this does not make him an "advocate". Reimer was not transgender, and it always confuses me why anti-trans people think what happened to him supports them. He knew he was a boy, others ignored him, and he suffered greatly as a result, in many of the same ways that transgender people suffer when they aren't allowed to decide their gender for themselves.

Note re: "Why isn't the much more likely explanation - that these adults are pedophiles" - This is not a more likely explanation.

6. "Where, without an adult telling them that a sex change is a real thing is possible for them to have, do you have children asking to be surgically changed to look vaguely like (ie, cosmetic only) the other sex?" - Children generally do not ask for SRS. Apart from that, I'm not sure what your point is here?

7. "How many children, without weird homophobic parents, want their genitals surgically modified?" - This is pretty clearly a reference to the conspiracy theory that transition is a form of gay conversion therapy. Like many conspiracy theories, it's really stupid. Homophobes are generally transphobic as well. Many trans people were asked "why couldn't you just be gay" when they came out to their parents, showing that they see being transgender as worse than being gay (not that they would have approved if they were gay either). Also, only about a quarter of transgender people describe themselves as straight, compared to about 90% for the general population, so if it were a form of gay conversion therapy then it would probably be the most counterproductive form yet devised.

Note re: "explain why wanting to be a dinosaur doesn't warrant surgery but wanting to play with dolls does" - (This is a duplicate of #1, but to reiterate: ) Transgender and cisgender children have every right to play with whatever toys they want, regardless of what gender they are marketed to. It's the transphobes who say children should only play with toys that match their gender.

Note re: "why not just agree with me?" - Because you are wrong about many, many, many things. There's more than this that you're wrong about, but if I listed everything you were wrong about and gave long-form sourced arguments in rebuttal, it'd be a full-time job, and I'm not doing one of those unless I'm getting paid to do it.


Thank you so much for trying to be a voice of reason!


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You are very actively talking about these cases, but what about the opposite? Trans kids who are kept from proper medical attention by their parents?

I don't think you're taking any kind of objective perspective, since you're arguing from anecdotes, not data. I am not interested in talking to you.


The vast, vast majority of gender affirming care for children is social transition, then maybe puberty blockers, then maybe hormones. SRS is exceedingly rare for under-18s and the massive focus you are putting on it suggests to me that your sources are extremely biased or outright disingenuous. Again look to WPATH, where absolutely no medical intervention whatsoeveris suggested for prepubescent children (S69).

Practically all of your questions have answers either in WPATH SoC or have been heavily discussed in the transgender community or in the medical community. It would be worth your time to see those perspectives.


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Please let me know the specific issues you have with e.g. any of these 55 studies that passed peer review:

https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equali...


Thanks for the link, but it will only confirm what you and I both believe for opposite reasons. The latest paper from the link reinforces the idea that long term post surgery QoL decreases after an an initial short term increase. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5440516/

Edit to add: as the father of two neuro-atypical kids I have an interest in therapy’s that help them get through life with their unique gifts. Were I offered a therapy that placated their idiosyncrasies in the short term only to harm them in the long term, it would quickly be rejected from all options, doubly were it permanently damaging to them in some way. Unfortunately, psychology is full of pop “therapies” that cause significant harm to vulnerable populations who are left to deal with the consequences.




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