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Launch HN: Fogbender (YC W22) – B2B support software designed for customer teams (fogbender.com)
86 points by rekoros on Feb 14, 2022 | hide | past | favorite | 28 comments
Hi HN, my name is Andrei - I’m the founder of Fogbender (https://fogbender.com) and I’m very happy to be here. We make customer support software for B2B vendors that makes it easy for you to work with customer teams, rather than just supporting each user independently. B2B companies with team dashboards can embed our messaging widget to offer off-the-shelf shared support channels to their users.

The problem that we solve is a painful one for both B2B customers and vendors, so I’ll describe it from each point of view.

A B2B customer buys a product and has an ever-changing group of people using it over time. Those users receive customer support as individuals, not as a team. This gets painful when the vendor can’t answer a question because part of the answer is only known by somebody else at the customer. This delays solutions, creates confusion, and hinders the spread of information.

A B2B vendor sells to teams and wants to support them effectively. But existing customer support products don’t do that—they only work with users one-by-one. To get around this, many vendors open a shared Slack channel with each customer team. Now they have two problems, because not only is Slack too unstructured for processing complex support requests, inevitably not everyone on the customer’s end knows about the Slack channel. The vendor ends up running two separate support systems, neither of which fully works, and now has the painful task of trying to synchronize the two.

To sum that up: support products don’t work with teams, and team products don’t work for support.

My first startup was a team messaging service (launched on HN as LeChat in early 2013! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5202381), where we created a shared support channel for every customer—this is how we found out about the power of doing support this way. When competing against Slack got too difficult in 2015, we pivoted to sameroom.io, which bridges rooms/channels between different messaging systems. We got acquired by 8x8 in 2017, then built their messaging infrastructure.

While at 8x8, my team began using Segment Analytics, and usage soon spread to other departments. I struggled to keep the deployment sane because I had no way of knowing which of our developers needed help. Segment supported us with Zendesk, which was aggressively unhelpful. I knew the problem was important when I started getting emails from Segment Analytics with PDF attachments outlining how much money we owed them in overage fees—that was literally my only exposure to the work other developers were doing with our Segment setup. A lot of money and people's time was getting flushed down the drain, all thanks to improper tooling.

I decided to start a startup to address this because (a) I thought we had the technical expertise to do it; (b) it feels like the market is enormous; (c) it's clear who the buyer is, and the price point can be relatively high, and (d) I really want to use it myself.

Our product is similar to Intercom or Drift in that our customer (the B2B vendor) installs a messaging widget on their customer dashboard. However, if the dashboard is accessible to a team of end users, all users see the same data in the widget. They can use it to talk to each other and with the vendor, just like with shared channels. We also make it easy to link these conversations to support tickets in vendor’s issue tracker.

Fogbender uses a pubsub-inspired messaging protocol (currently the only transport is websocket, but we may add others), powered by Elixir and Postgres. The frontend is TypeScript, React, SolidJS, and Tailwind. We're fans of monorepos and prefer to add supervisors to our BEAM supervision tree instead of spinning up microservices.

Our philosophy regarding the messaging product itself is closer to Telegram than Slack. We like to have the ability to view multiple rooms at the same time, to be able to forward contiguous blocks of messages between rooms, to have replies instead of anonymous threads, and to be able to follow #tags.

We’re still working out pricing, so you’ll notice “TBD” on our pricing page, but our basic strategy is clear: a free tier, after which vendors pay only per user with write access to customer-facing rooms. Everyone at the vendor gets free read access to all messages, and everyone at the customer gets free read and write access. This way we charge only when real value (actual support) is being delivered, and we facilitate the spread of information between vendor and customer and within the customer team itself.

You can try us out now at https://fogbender.com. After creating an account, you’ll be asked for a code, but just enter “HN” and it should work! To see what it’s like to receive help as a team, invite a friend/colleague and ping us in support :)

I’d love to hear your thoughts on the subject of offering and receiving team-level customer support (or team messaging products in general). If you have any questions about Fogbender, I’ll do my best to answer in the comments!




I recorded a brief video showing how the product works - https://www.loom.com/share/da9861a4526b424f90a08e54aa6e5fea

(Pretending that Stripe is using Fogbender for customer support)


Funny because we (B2B SAAS company) literally built an in house tool to manage customers at a "Company" level rather than Contacts/Users. However we decided to switch to Helpscout as we didn't wanna self host and it has been a bad experience with helpscout. They have no concept of "Company" and we are honestly considering switching back to our home grown tool. There definitely is need for tool like this.

I will be happy to beta test if you are offering.


HelpScout is a super competent team inbox solution, but yes - it's simply not designed for supporting an entire company.

We would love for you to beta test! You can kick the tires by signing up and inviting a few colleagues (ping us in support to see what it feels like), or I can walk you through a demo.


Thanks for replying. I will test it out and let you know. I would also encourage to really "disrupt" (Yes I used the word here) pricing for support tools. Per agent/user pricing (zendesk/freshdesk/helpscout etc) really adds up for a startup/smaller teams and I would encourage you to consider flat rate pricing with limits of different types.


I know what you mean. We're doing a few things in terms of pricing that (I think) are unusual for support tools:

- Unlimited read access to everyone at your company (because customer support conversations should be accessible to all team members). Say you have 15 people, but only 3 are customer-facing certified - if we charged $15/month, it would be $45/month for 15 people. (This also means unlimited write access in internal rooms - think of it as free Slack;)

- No charge for two customer-facing agents, which would cover most bootstrapped or pre-seed startups;

- Off-the-bat SSO; not a part of enterprise plan.


Nice. 1st and 3rd points are gold. I would say that for read only, at least allow internal team members to comment/note on customer issues and consider that read only as well. That way, we can have more team members be involved in internal notes etc for a customer but only charge if we are replying ? Or may be add role for agents as "commenter vs customer facing" . We ourselves offer SSO with our lower plans and that is very popular. The whole old school model of "SSO only available with Enterprise" needs to die soon.


Yes, totally agree on the SSO part.

The whole reader/writer part is pretty confusing. I made a brief video that explains a possible workflow: https://www.loom.com/share/7f644774c3114e65b779d13d1c6eda18


Front also rolled out support for "accounts" last year which sounds exactly like what you are trying to do. It aggregates a set of contacts under an account and lets you use accounts through the whole application.

You can see all of the communication from a company across all channels (support, sales, success), get automatically notified if someone else in the organization replied recently, do routing/classification based on account data (account size, account owners), and filter analytics by account.

Worth a look if you're considering going off Helpscout.


Just to clarify, you get this account-level view from the perspective of the vendor, correct?

(i.e. if I'm an end user and I use Front to get support from my vendor - will my colleagues be able to get involved in sorting through my issue?)


we’re B2C and whilst I love helpscout, they seem to have stopped innovating or caring about solving some pain points (in our case multi-language support). I can kinda understand most of the time, but some things just feel a bit too tight fisted to me… They still seem to be better than zendesk and intercom, but I really wish they would push the envelope a bit more…


Love this. We ran into a lot of these pain points while we were building and growing Flex @ Twilio. We ended up creating a "shadow" support org in the early days that provided 1:1 (product-led!) support to our early customers via Slack. That did not scale.

You are aware of and are trying to address many the issues we ran into as we grew our customer base (e.g. pass to tickets, getting new team members up to speed, etc.).

I am very interested in how you are planning on addressing the tooling issue, from the _end-customer_ POV. We settled on shared Slack channels because the majority of our early customers used Slack for their own internal comms. Using shared channels was very low friction for onboarding folks and provided a solid experience (vs. having to push them into another tool to get support).


Great question!

Here is how I think about it - by doing support through Slack, you're pushing your users to another tool to get support, away from your own product :)

We'd like to make it really easy to fuse a team dashboard (e.g. Twilio Flex) with team support experience, so your users would get the same level of care they get with Slack (possibly better - because instead of a single shared channel, they have what essentially is an entire shared workspace), but without having to also sign into Slack and locate the support channel.

That said, I do wonder how much pushback we'll see because end customers simply love getting support in Slack instead of inside the vendor's product.


I basically had the same issue, got frustrated with same tools you mentioned. We built an internal tool (CIC) to manage/annotate client email/phone/chat in one spot, tickets assigned to Company rather (or in addition to) Contact.

I too see this need in the space.


Yes, I've talked to quite a few folks who've built their own solutions.

Interestingly, AWS almost does this, but you have to know (and remember) the identities of those who should be CCd when opening a ticket.


> B2C support tools don’t work for B2B

yes this -- so many build-vs-buy decisions that end up at 'build' because the market doesn't provide multitenant products

b2b2b / b2b2c is a bet on a software future of many mini platforms


Can you elaborate on what you mean by mini platforms? I think I am following but interested by what you meas and also curious what you mean by "the market doesn't provide multi-tenant products? Zendesk is a multi-tenant product. I think the problem you may be pointing out is it doesn't treat the tenant / organization as a first class object.


by mini-platform, I meant a saas who hosts other businesses who in turn have customers. (This may not be a good name for this). Example is shopify -- if shopify were buying a Q&A tool, for example, they would need it to be administered by the store owner and accessible by the store customers. (Also shopify is no longer mini)

zendesk is a great example. I looked at their 'multibrand' feature.

per this https://support.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/4408829476378, an enterprise plan lets me have 300 sub-accounts with restricted roles. But: 1) it's not clear if each role gets an admin panel for their page, and 2) it costs $199 per month per agent. This isn't designed to be re-sold.

Freshdesk also has a 'forest' plan which supports unlimited 'products', per this https://support.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/376..., but it seems like the tickets all funnel to the same admin panel.

ah I didn't mean to say 'the market never provides', more like 'in some build vs buy decisions' there are good plugins on the market but none of them offer multitenancy.


This looks great! Definitely looks useful and with no status quo solving it well right now.

I'd love to see what else people are using right now for this, and what the cons of that are compared to this - the real-time, team-based support chat use case, with included support ticket tracking. A combination of Slack shared channels and ticket/feature-request tracking that is.


Thank you!

To the best of my knowledge, people are using Slack's shared channels plus an integration or two (custom or off-the-shelf).


Looks nice, and I understand the problem, I'll bookmark this for when we scale up our support.

As a note, I'd be careful with using the word customer when writing, since it can be ambiguous if its your direct customer or your customer's customer. We have the same situation, so I'm aware of it haha.


Word :)


This is a huge pain point for so many companies! I haven't seen a solution that does this well until now.

And not limited to customer support - think about partnerships and sales (while perhaps a smaller opportunity).... shared Slack channels can be such a pain.

Anyways. Andrei and team are really smart, great people. Very exciting!


Great concept, but a question about permissions: say that I'm the admin on the client side with a billing question for example, would my non-admin teammates (that don't have access to the billing info) have access to the support conversation about billing?


By default: yes. However, the vendor could create a private room just for the admins, where sensitive topics could be discussed.

Some other thoughts: the vendor could group all admins into a separate "customer", with their own set of rooms.

Very similarly, the vendor could also group all users a single "customer" that would function as a community (but where all users are authenticated).

Great question!


I could be wrong, but I think that such questions are pretty rare with complex products - most issues are about features, bugs, outages, etc.

My favorite answer to this question is actually "they would just send an email to their customer success rep" :-)


Andrei and team are awesome. We were customers of a Fogbender ancestor (a chat app that became SameRoom) and are excited to be customers for Fogbender!

For a growing customer success org, being able to generate tickets from these chats is super useful.


Andrei and team are building something very cool at Fogbender. They’re trying to tackle the customer support communication pipeline in a way that solves for a number of pain points that services like Intercom don’t help with.

We were early users and look forward to continue testing in the future. Congrats Fogbender team on launching!


I’m happy to see this launch, Andrei! You all have dedicated so many years to working on chat for business. I’m excited to see this out there, and watch this next chapter in your story unfold!




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