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Can you explain?



I can't explain for the other user but I'll tack on my own little horror story. I once got the task of porting something written for early nodejs that used MongoDB as a backend to Django. The app had been developed by a contractor and had many iterations of the data layer. I had to somehow make sense of how to make that all fit in a relational database. The changes made were not documented at all and I didn't have time to go digging through the git repo for some history. It was not a particularly fun task.

Maybe it's a culture thing. I have this oldschool thing about data meeting invariant criteria and I dislike not using a RDBMS.


RDBMS are the solution to many of the problems that these 'modern' systems have, but it isn't cool.

Someone joked that the wave of the future will be SQL, and that those start-ups that use it will believe that they have superpowers over the ones that don't. Transactional integrity, complex queries, constraints, what's not to like?


It's funny how true that is. Every day I write SQL I'm grateful that I'm on a relational database and not on some hot new nosql system that is both over and underkill for the work I do.


For a while learning my way around a nosql database was on my to-do for professional development list. I won't claim there aren't valid use cases, but once I got around to spending a few hours poking around I quickly realized it would not make my life any easier.


This video should speak to you

https://youtu.be/b2F-DItXtZs


I could find a single sentence from the noob that I could agree with. Redis is superior to memcached. Not due to being faster or scalable, I've just had less operational problems with it than memcached. It's on my list of supersoftwares that are first choices to solve a problem in it's domain (nginx, uwsgi, postgresql, redis).


> I have this oldschool thing about data meeting invariant criteria and I dislike not using a RDBMS.

Same. As another 'old school' person, I've been around long enough to see that data outlives whatever the current application is of the day. This means that storing data in something that is standard, has good tooling, and can have some guarantees ends up critical.


Setting aside the fact that the document storage model is rarely a good fit for most applications (and the primary reason I had once been a fan of MongoDB, Meteor, has gone the way of the dodo), the Jepsen distributed system audits of MongoDB's behavior under load were damning for much of the past decade. They've improved in recent years as shown below, but this remains a company that allowed these types of bugs to be considered acceptable, and it's still easy to use MongoDB in an unsafe way.

2013: https://aphyr.com/posts/284-jepsen-mongodb

> To recap: MongoDB is neither AP nor CP. The defaults can cause significant loss of acknowledged writes. The strongest consistency offered has bugs which cause false acknowledgements, and even if they’re fixed, doesn’t prevent false failures.

[N.B. I thought this was just an edge case until it happened to me in production. Luckily, I had separate storage of ground truth, but I very easily could have been in real trouble.]

2015: https://aphyr.com/posts/322-jepsen-mongodb-stale-reads

> In this post, we’ll see that Mongo’s consistency model is broken by design: not only can “strictly consistent” reads see stale versions of documents, but they can also return garbage data from writes that never should have occurred. The former is (as far as I know) a new result which runs contrary to all of Mongo’s consistency documentation. The latter has been a documented issue in Mongo for some time. We’ll also touch on a result from the previous Jepsen post: almost all write concern levels allow data loss.

2017: https://jepsen.io/analyses/mongodb-3-4-0-rc3

> MongoDB has devoted significant resources to improved safety in the past two years, and much of that ground-work is paying off in 3.2 and 3.4. Dirty reads, which we covered in the last Jepsen post, can now be avoided by using the WiredTiger storage engine and selecting majority read concern. Because dirty reads can be written back to the database in read-modify-update cycles, potentially causing the loss of committed writes, users of ODMs and other data mappers should take particular care to use majority reads unless making careful use of findAndModify.


MongoDb are infamous for lying about their capabilities. Just search hackernews and you'll read all of the horror stories.


What others have said + I have not forgotten about "webscale."




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