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Upgrade culture is unethical and toxic (reddit.com)
18 points by hawkoy on Oct 14, 2020 | hide | past | favorite | 19 comments



This is ignoring that people who upgrade often resell their phones, meaning they aren't just going into a landfill. People who want the latest can have it, while those who want a decent phone for cheap can pick one up used. Very few people buy something new and throw away the old, perfectly usable thing it is replacing.


While re-use and recycling are important, this post addresses a different use: the issues associated with production of the latest line of devices themselves.

When you sell your old phone while buying a new one, both phones have already been produced. The issues - e.g. water consumption, worker rights, pollution related to production and logistics,... - associated with the production of both devices have already happened.

Reuse and recycling would only be a net positive if they replace the amount of new resources which are introduced into the entire production/consumption cycle, and reduce pollution. That's just not what is happening.

What happens to old electronic devices? Their value is gradually written off until they are deemed worthless junk. What's fraction of originally manufactured and sold iPhone 4's is still in active use in 2020? How many are sitting idle somewhere in a drawer? How many ended up in landfills? How many ended up as exported waste to developing countries?

A far more interesting question is this: Is the need to own the latest generation artificial? Is that need driven by the unveiling of latest new features and 'improvements'? Or does the latest generation solve fundamental new consumer demands which emerged independently of the product?

As the poster poignantly asked: Does one really need to replace perfectly working devices just to do the exact same set of things every 18-24 months?


I nearly upgraded my S9 to a Pixel 5. My S9 has a cracked screen and my GPS UI is visibly burnt into the screen. Since my stand-alone camera fell apart, it's the only camera I have, and it's not good.

Even then, the upgrade doesn't solve a 600€ problem. This expense has an abysmal Euro to pleasure ratio. It costs about the same to ride a motorcycle for a week in the Atlas mountains. I cancelled my preorder. I think I can wait a year or two still.

When you have some spare money, it's easy to start shopping for ways to spend it. It's good to remind yourself that you sold hours of your life to earn that money.


True but are you actually going to drive a motorcycle in the mountains for a week? And if you are, can does that actually preclude you from buying the phone? I could probably fly to Paris instead of buying an iPhone, but that’s just a datapoint.


In my case, yes. It was amazing. You can substitute motorcycle travels with something that will bring you more joy than a slightly better phone.

If you're lucky, you can have both. Even then, wouldn't it be nice to shave a week or two off your retirement age here and there? How much time at the office is a flagship phone worth?


Many families have hand-me-down phones/clothes/vehicles/computers/...


The real link is https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/jad7rp/upgrade_cult...

Now... Good luck getting the average apple users listening to that.


The average Apple user is trapped. Apple runs an ecosystem that enforces obsolescence at an obscene rate. In a few years, they won't be able to get apps or system updates, and their battery will begin to be insufficient. They will then face a choice of "upgrade", or the conversion costs of escaping the system, which can be extreme.


Saying that the Apple enforces obsolescence when their phones have support for much longer than most Android flagships is insane.


As an iPhone and Macbook Pro user since 2015 (formerly Motorola Android phone and Windows desktop) I feel like I'm constantly walking on Apple's upgrade treadmill.

That iOS is available for install on older devices is only one data point across the entirety of the Apple ecosystem. And the Apple ecosystem is only one of many, so if one entertains the premise of this post, Apple being 'better' than Android in this specific way doesn't disprove the premise.

Also note that simply being able to install new(er) iOSes on older devices is only part of the battle. I upgraded my iPhone 6 to its point of obsolescence: what was once an absolute joy to use became so slow that using it for even basic web browsing was a painful chore. One could argue that the availability of OS upgrades for old devices combined with Apple's reluctance to ever back-port security and core functionality fixes makes the treadmill worse and not better.


> what was once an absolute joy to use became so slow that using it for even basic web browsing was a painful chore

That's because apple slows down the CPU in order to make the battery last longer.

That's a known trick to make users believe that their iPhone is somehow magical and not subject to battery wear like every other non-apple phone.

Iirc there has been a class action about this.

Try looking up this topic and replace the battery if you can. It might bring you a substantial performance boost.


Iirc there has been a class action about this.

And in just amazingly classic Apple form, they added the ability to see if the device was being throttled... in a point release of the then-current major version of iOS - and did not back-port it to the previous major version.

My device wasn’t being throttled. But in order to have the privilege of even CHECKING that fact, I had to upgrade the OS and move my iPhone further towards its obsolescence.

(That’s kind of hyperbole... but only in that I personally didn’t upgrade the OS specifically to check whether it was throttling.)


I feel your pain but in all honesty the only thing I can say is... Meh, that's what you get when you buy Apple stuff.


That's interesting. I have a different experience.

I bought my last macbook in 2012. I got a new one for the price of a battery swap in 2017, so I'm set until at least 2022, as long as their stupid keyboard lasts. My 2012 would still do the job just fine in 2020.

I don't think I've ever kept a Windows laptop this long, except for my ThinkPad-turned-homeserver, which runs Linux.

My iPhones were supported longer than my android devices, though they all tend to die from abuse or aging batteries, not from obsolescence.


> I don't think I've ever kept a Windows laptop this long, except for my ThinkPad-turned-homeserver, which runs Linux.

You just replied to yourself.

It's unfair to compare macbook longevity with low-grade cheap hardware.

Compare Macbooks' longevity to ThinkPads or Dell Latitudes and now we're talking.

Seriously, I've been given a Dell Latitude 7390 at work and this thing is MARVELOUS. Had it had the trackpoint I'd be dumping my personal ThinkPad T440 and I'd be getting one of these. And on both the Latitude and the ThinkPad I get to upgrade ram, disk and battery if I want.


This ignores the software aspect. My Macbook feels incredibly fast, but Windows tends to feel sluggish after a year or two.

The hardware might last longer, but only if you have a need for it.


The only reason that happens is because the Apple Ecosystem is so integrated and known.

You are basically required to get a new Android every two years if you want updates and new apps to work. iPhones can go for a lot longer then that while working perfectly fine. Android Tablets are worse.

Mac OS X does seem to have a shorter lifespan compared to Windows, in part because Microsoft does a lot fewer major releases. In the time there has been 3 major Windows Versions there has been at least 6 Mac ones.

You're pushed to upgrade because everyone knows about Apple's new crap, specifically their customers. You think someone who has a Samsung S20 knows what the newest phone is?


I read this as self congratulatory virtue signaling. At the end of the day this argument could be broadened to “consumption culture is unethical and toxic” as buying anything has these same pitfalls. But this article (and comments here) fall into the “consuming this thing I don’t value is bad because consumption is bad” while overlooking all the other things they consume that they do value. I’ve been lectured about upgrading my TV from an SUV owner who most certainly leases.


Pretty funny from someone holding multiple apple products, and doing some trading.

https://www.reddit.com/user/MrC4meron?count=25&after=t1_g7cc...

Yet another case of what I don't like is toxic and must stop.




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