Yes, but half the world isn't actively trying to destroy most people/nations.
And yes I do recognize it must suck ass to live in Gaza and I feel for them, and hope for a better future where their lives don't suck ass. I have no idea what to do about it though.
I know it's inconvenient for Europeans and progressives who think they can just lift the blockade and stop operations in Syria and everyone will live happily ever after, but when that filters through my ears it becomes "we don't give a fuck if you live or die."
Why should I care about the opinions of people who don't give a fuck if I live or die?
> half the world isn't actively trying to destroy most people/nations
True, including Israel.
You do realize that the occupation and abuse of Palestinians by Israel is what drives those Arabs that hate Israel, right? It's a rallying call, if you will.
As for genocidal rhetoric, it's been done both by Israeli neighbors and Israel itself.
As for military might, Israel is clearly on top.
> I do recognize it must suck ass to live in Gaza and I feel for them, and hope for a better future where their lives don't suck ass. I have no idea what to do about it though.
> I know it's inconvenient for Europeans and progressives who think they can just lift the blockade and stop operations in Syria and everyone will live happily ever after
As for Syria, is a sovereign country that you have no right to operate in, nor do you have the right to constantly violate Lebanese airspace.
How do you expect other countries to respect you, when you don't even respect international law?
As for Palestinians, there's always the rhetoric that they will never become peaceful etc. but how about you stop thinking of 'Greater Israel' and stop building illegal settlements as a first step? You can't continue jacking their land and somehow come to an agreement with them.
As for Gaza, yes, lifting the blockade, at least for essential supplies, lifting fishing restrictions, not targeting civilians and perhaps sponsoring targeted programs to build infrastructure there etc. would help. Stop sniping nurses and journalists as you did with the great match of return, that would be nice.
Build some goodwill, allows Gazans to leave and study abroad, sponsor some targeted infrastructure projects...
> but when that filters through my ears it becomes "we don't give a fuck if you live or die."
> Why should I care about the opinions of people who don't give a fuck if I live or die?
For my part, I absolutely care for you to live, but it could be said that it is what comes out of Israel is to my ears as if you don't care whether Palestinians live or die indeed.
There's much talk about their violence etc. but from what I've studied, it is driven by desperation. There's no prospects there, no future, no joy, no nothing. When there's such a situation, resisting what they, (and the international community btw), see as occupation is pretty much the only thing that occurs to many of them.
I realize the issue isn't simple, but as I said, outreach and show of goodwill go a long way. Stop building settlements for one, enforce security in their areas from settler attacks as well, build infrastructure, come to the table and most importantly stop dreaming of 'Greater Israel' and you may get somewhere.
> Naive. I'm sure they'll find another excuse to restore the Muslim lands.
So it's ok for you to continue, because you're sure they'll find another reason? What if am sure they won't? That's a lousy argument if I ever saw one.
> This is where the 'get fucked' comes in.
So you approve of violating international law? Why should Israel have any extra rights as a state, compared to others, or the Palestinians for that matter?
> What's your point? It's ok if they shoot missiles at me because ours our bigger and fancier?
It's not ok, but so it's acting that your bombardment is a proportional response to their home-made rockets. It mostly kills civilians.
> Noted. Both sides are negotiating in bad faith so some degree here. There is no indication that Palestinians will ever consider one square inch of Israel to not be 'jacking their lands'
The Palestinians have said that they're OK with the '67 borders, that's certainly giving up on some land allocated to them by the UN to Israel.
> any more than there is of settlers giving up hope for 'greater Israel.'
So is this the justification for continuing the status quo of the occupation? That's not a good look if I may say so myself. How are the settlers different then than the extreme Islamic factions of the Palestinians? Because their settlements are protected by Israel and thus make Israel at least partially responsible for them.
> So they can use fishing boats to smuggle weapons and concrete for tunnels? Which IS what would happen. but still..
Am sure there would a percentage used that way, so do inspections or whatever. You don't make an argument like this for anything other. "There should be no cars, because someone may have an accident".
> You do realize that the occupation and abuse of Palestinians by Israel is what drives those Arabs that hate Israel, right? It's a rallying call, if you will.
You do realize that it's the other way around, in that "Palestinians" have always hated Israel (aided and abetted by Israel's Arab neighboring states) since it's lawful establishment by the UN? Palestinians are still failing to acknowledge Israel's right to exist.
> You do realize that it's the other way around, in that "Palestinians" have always hated Israel (aided and abetted by Israel's Arab neighboring states) since it's lawful establishment by the UN?
If you're giving the historical context, it's worth noting that Israel was indeed established by the UN, but only after years of massive migration to the territory and committing significant terrorism when the British were there(in fact the IDF is a result of the merger of several terrorist factions), the kind of terrorism that is often used by Israelis to pain the Palestinians as uncivilized savages.
The UN also established what should be the Palestinian territory, which is today occupied by Israel.
The Arab states did in fact invade, the Palestinians saw it as eroding on their land, (and the British agreed to a large extent at the time), however I do agree that they should have accepted the UN ruling. It was wrong not to do so, regardless of how Israel came to be.
This does however not justify the present occupation of even the few remaining Palestinian territories, especially because the very UN that you cite considers them illegal and Israel is regularly condemned at the UN for it. Yet it continues to ignore international law with impunity because of U.S. support.
> Palestinians are still failing to acknowledge Israel's right to exist.
They largely do acknowledge it, the PA certainly does and even Hamas has amended their charter in 2017 to that direction as far as I know.
The fact is, Israel has a state in any case. Do you acknowledge the right for Palestine to exist? Because Israeli continued expansion of illegal settlements on the ground does not suggest so and it certainly does not help the peace process in any way.
Are other people/nations also allowed to 'act in self defense', or is it only Israel?
> Now get fucked.
Well, I guess you won the argument.