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Living a Lie: We Deceive Ourselves to Better Deceive Others (scientificamerican.com)
112 points by brahmwg on April 8, 2017 | hide | past | favorite | 31 comments



Bernard L. Madoff

From Wikipeda

"In his plea allocution, Madoff stated he began his Ponzi scheme in 1991. He admitted he had never made any legitimate investments with his clients' money during this time. Instead, he said, he simply deposited the money into his personal business account at Chase Manhattan Bank. When his customers asked for withdrawals, he paid them out of the Chase account — a classic "robbing Peter to pay Paul" scenario. Chase and its successor, JPMorgan Chase, may have earned as much as $483 million from his bank account.[107][108] He was committed to satisfying his clients' expectations of high returns, despite an economic recession. He admitted to false trading activities masked by foreign transfers and false SEC filings. He stated that he always intended to resume legitimate trading activity, but it proved "difficult, and ultimately impossible" to reconcile his client accounts. In the end, Madoff said, he realized that his scam would eventually be exposed.[75][109]

let me emphasize from above:

"He stated that he always intended to resume legitimate trading activity, but it proved "difficult, and ultimately impossible" to reconcile his client accounts"


This is excellent. Describes moral bankruptcy as well. Maybe perhaps not entirely malicious, but ultimately wrong and unmaintainable.


>He stated that he always intended to resume legitimate trading activity, but it proved "difficult, and ultimately impossible" to reconcile his client accounts.

My guess is he is a sociopath, and his statement about intending to switch to legitimate trading is a lie intended to make him look less guilty.


From the wisdom of George in Seinfeld, when Jerry is seeking advice before sitting a lie detector test: "Jerry, just remember, it’s not a lie if you believe it."


Also, the saying, "Fake it 'til you make it".

The study looked at perceived athleticism. I wonder if the same could be said about entrepreneurship?


The Phantom Pain taught me this as well.


I always knew that lying to oneself is a good planned strategy for lying.

But never thought that our natural tendency to deceive ourselves might have the ultimate purpose of helping us deceive others.

This is why I love hacker news. I get a different perspective every day that (whether it's right or wrong) forces me to re-consider my mental models of the world.


> This is why I love hacker news. I get a different perspective every day that (whether it's right or wrong) forces me to re-consider my mental models of the world.

I almost believed you there. Don't lie to yourself, we like Hacker News for its entertainment value. :P


I'm just here for the pictures.


There are pictures? I think I've been using this wrong


Maybe you should check your settings. ;)


There was an NPR story about how our current president listened to a lot "Power of Positive Thinking" lectures/sermons early in his life. He really embraced those ideas.

Seems he's almost always trying to convince the world that a certain narrative about himself, the voters, and reality in general is true.

But this research adds an interesting wrinkle to that story. By making so many questionable statements publicly, maybe he's really just trying to convince himself.

And that's why, when outsiders try to tell him that his "facts" are not facts at all, it doesn't matter to him. He just repeats his original statement even louder. His public statements aren't for the rest of us. We're just the audience that adds some emotional intensity for him and the process in his own brain.


I also find anecdotally that people like that only surround themselves with people who repeat (or at least don't challenge) the lie. If you throw in some reality that is at odds with their belief then you don't get a seat at the table any more.


Have you ever read discussions on HN about climate change?


That's a tacky and pointless comment.


I just tried to use a non-anecdotally counterexample.


I have absolutely no clue what you mean by it.


I posted this a few weeks ago, it didn't get much traction but was an excellent read if you have been exposed to "Power of Positive Thinking" or it's spiritual predecessor "Think and Grow Rich".

http://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/the-untold-story-of-napoleon-...

Always kind of figured the authors were hucksters (not to discount whatever valuable insight they might actually have). The article somewhat confirmed my suspicion.


This seems like a junk experiment. They asked people to perform a task that would be easier if you had some information. Then they started showing them videos. The subjects stopped watching when they had enough inspiration for their story. That's it.

It's as if the authors of the study think the subjects have ESP and know that evidence contrary to their goal is coming up, and therefore decide to stop watching.


Welcome to intelligence 101, if you don't believe it, you won't be able to convincingly lie to others as well. There is a reason intel bubbas have amazing cross training with acting, particularly Method.


I lie to myself that I don't lie to myself


"whether you think you can, or you think you can't - you're right.” ― Henry Ford


The one I can totally understand is

Contending that his statement that "there's nothing going on between us" had been truthful because he had no ongoing relationship with Lewinsky at the time he was questioned, Clinton said, "It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is."

Words matter in a useless way for my math mind.

Especially the words "maybe" or "might have" - both are correct in almost any instance, question or situation.

So clinton's "is" is his way to lie but not lie. Maybe.


Telling the truth can be costly. Overwhelmingly we massage the facts to get the point across without causing too much damage. Textbook simplify a complicated facts for students, that is not lying. Commercials aren't lying because they aren't saying anything with a basis in fact.

While the majority of statements are neither true nor false, maybe we can quantify if a statement is closer to one or the other.


Well, this sure explains why I suck so hard at lying.


Slightly off-topic, but it is worth noting how unusual Robert Trivers acted in this case. Can anyone think of another interesting hypothesis that was put forward in the Foreword of someone else's book? In his own introduction, Dawkins remarks on how unusual this is, and his tone can be read as amusement, but also perhaps a little bit of annoyance.


This is method acting. We all do it. It's the major self-help strategy. And it's very useful in developing personas for compartmentalization.


Sure. How else one could get married?


As someone who is married, I truly do not understand your comment. The exact opposite seems true to me. Honesty and integrity are paramount (at least to me). Find somebody you respect. Find somebody who is compatible with you. Hope you find someone who thinks and feels the same as you do. If I struggled on my journey, it was to find a woman who did not want to dominate me or be dominated who was worthy of my respect. I consider myself very lucky. Been married for a long time to an amazing women who is an engineer in heart and soul. So, nothing about self doubt, deceit for me.


Congrats you hit the jackpot. Many people are not so lucky, well at least half or more* (depending on the percentage of marriages are actually happy).


If you are college educated divorce rates plummets. Same for marrying later in life. +the 50% stat is quite weighted by people with multiple divorces. The average HN reader probably has an 80% shot at lifelong marriage.




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