> The effect of these serotonin “peaks” on locomotion was almost instantaneous (speed reduction manifested one second after stimulation) and transient, with things going back to normal after five seconds. But during this short period of time, “the animals acted as if they weren’t motivated”, says Zach Mainen, who led the study.
I'm really, really, not sure how they can draw the link to general motivation. Ok, so the animals seemed not motivated after serotonin spiked? Couldn't that possibly just be due to the transient effect alone? Like, once stabilized at higher levels, maybe they would have normal, or even higher motivation. It was that you "shocked" them with it..
> Serotonin-producing neurons are located in an area of the brainstem (the most “primitive” part of the brain in evolutionary terms)
Stupidly simplified. Seratonin is a key chemical throughout the body. There's more of it in your gut than in your brain (why do you think people on SSRIs gain weight?). Focusing your attention to behaviour regulation entirely on the brain is silly.
> There's more of it in your gut than in your brain (why do you think people on SSRIs gain weight?)
It's true most of it is in our guts, but the weight gain link seems a bit far fetched. In the gut, serotonin depletion leads to the feel of hunger and high levels of serotonin is where you get a diarrhea. If anything I would expect the opposite [1]
Rats are a decent model, but they aren't humans. From googling around, it appears that weight gain is a common side effect in most (all?) anti-depressants.
Why does the effect need to come from the gut? SSRIs mess with the reward systems in the brain right? Other drugs that do that affect weight. I lost a ton of weight on stimulants because they kill appetite.
I've seen some sources say in humans around 2% of the study group lost weight, while other studies support 25% of a target group reporting weight gain. Main theory for weight gain is that the higher extra cellular levels of serotonin slow down the metabolism. Fascinating article you've linked though, thanks for sharing!
It's also a huge simplification to assert that because there's lots of serotonin in the gut, that's why people gain weight on SSRIs. How would you explain the people who DON'T gain weight on SSRIs?
Speaking from experience of a year or so on Sertraline (Zoloft in the US?) – I lost 28lb whilst on Sertraline and quickly (and sadly) gained it back when I stopped using the medication.
If anyone's taken MDMA at a rave as opposed to a house party, this kinda rings true - when your serotonin is boosted and you're dancing and listening to music and interacting with people it's amazing, but if you're at a relatively chill party you tend to sit in the corner just feeling fuzzy as hell until already motivated to do stuff.
In what way? That serotonin causes stress, or that stress causes serotonin to be released? Or the opposites of those, that serotonin relieves stress or stress causes a reduction in serotonin? Or something else?
It's more complicated but he's saying for example [1] that stress elevates serotonin (ie. in hibernating animals stress from declining food supply elevates serotonin production, which decreases body temperature by lowering metabolic rate; similar effect is in non-hibernating animals, like humans, in winter).
Interesting idea somewhere in the middle of this article, about "generations" of anti-depression drugs. He's basically saying that when drug patent is close to expire, they "invent" new generation of drugs, which patent holders claim is better than previous one (he's saying that 3rd gen (SRI - Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors) are actually not better than 1st gen (MAO - MonoAmine Oxidase)).
He's saying that Lilly makes over $2 billion per year on Prozac for example.
From what he's saying it also seems that "playing" with serotonin increases suicide rate in people who didn't have suicidal thoughts (but were depressed).
Also that the clearest effect from studies of serotonin is that it's causing "learned helplessness" in subjects.
I'm not sure how accurate this is, just skimmed over [1] - please read the source if you want more info. There are other articles on that site as well related to serotonin.
Probably also important to point out that SSRIs don't seem to be much more than active placebo for the first few months for most people, and that most people's depression lifts without them. And that SSRIs are super addictive, so once they stop working you can't get off them easily without massive withdrawals and are usually given some other mix of drugs.
The "imbalance" model for depression / mental illness was a great hypothesis and was worth exploring. Unfortunately there really has never been any studies that really support it, but it's certainly a narrative big pharma loves when people repeat.
MDMA and other psychedelics on the other hand have been very useful in single doses (or short series) in effectively curing PTSD, depression, anxiety, bipolar, etc.
I know from first hand experience.
For me, my research led me to see the fragility of the main stream narrative and seek to understand other ways.
I found a model that suggested past cultural, developmental and shock trauma caused a freezing of the organism into a fight or flight response (which depending on the individual manifested in a number of ways), and that the way to "heal" that experience was to relax the ego enough (default brain network) to allow new information in. Dan Siegel calls this the "window of opportunity". Various therapies offer a gradual opening of this window, from Journaling for PTSD to the most effective I found, NARM.
When used in a therapeutic setting, MDMA allows for this relaxing and those unexperienced exoeriences (trauma) can be released -- this was experienced for me, and many, as a safe revisiting of the hardest moments in my life in an understanding way.
The human psyche even has its own reboot system to accomplish this, though like a psychedelic, if your culture lacks the understanding and set / setting, it can land you in a psyche ward.
This reboot process is called "psychosis" and it is induced internally when external stresses push the organism beyond its model of the world.
What happens is the default network relaxes and allows new information flows to come in -- this is identical to a psychedelic experience from my direct experience and if one can stay with it (and not end up having a 1st year psychiatric resident with no experience holding space for a psychosis to come to completion shoot you up with some anti-psychotic) you emerge, predicably, with a new sense of confidence and mission / message -- which is almost always directly related to the under represented values / conditions that existed in your environment that caused the stress.
People experience some version of this all the time, creativity is spurred by pain, people get stressed and then have an insight, etc.
Some cultures have identified the value of this experience fully completing and in integrating the wisdom from the sensitive person who is manifesting symptoms for the collective -- they are Shamanic Cultures, and they have a process and protocol for initiating folks, almost always with the use of non-ordinary states (plants, dance,fast, chanting, sweats) to heal and gain access to new views (non default network brain mode).
For me, it's been quite amazing because once those patterns unwound inside, all of my relationships took on this magical new quality of wholeness and safety, as I was no longer hiding from certain feelings.
As someone who was labeled everything from schizophrenic, schizo-affective, bipolar, depressed, anxious and has tasted the heights of mania and depths of suicidal depression, I can say that I'm without a doubt healed of the bulk of the trauma that was beneath the surface and it is due to using a variety of non-ordinary states of consciousness to create that window of opportunity (both medicine potentiated and non-medicine potentiated.)
My team says I'm no longer diagnosable with those and have been asked to compiling my research for a PHd program (which I may do). And I've gone to work to integrate the values & vision I came back from my experience with acrosss a wide range of industry (outer space, permaculture, education, politics, etc.)
In honor of Valentine's Day I should mention that Love is also a powerful psychedelic that requires the right set and setting (when we lack the right set and setting, the nature of the psychedlic is it can reveal an old trauma and if it's not addressed, it can retraumatize people or make them feel worse).. Ann Shulgin (wife of Sasha, the man who resiscovered MDMA) famously said "love is the psychedelic experience that all humans have access to in this lifetime, and they would outlaw that too if they could."
<shameless plug> I am actually co-leading a workshop in NYC tonight about how to use True Love as a psychedelic healing experience. My yogi girlfriend & I will demonstrate in real time how we use the psychedelic nature of love & conflict to access and heal our deepest parts so we can be more real and effective in the world.
The workshop is called Drama As Dharma, in NYC and we have a couple spots left, I'd be happy to comp anyone a VIP ticket ($60) if they'd like to check it out. 2/15, 6:30-9pm @ Reflections Center for Concious Living </shameless plug>
If anyone wants more info on how I handled this stuff or wants to come tonight, my email is anthony @ 175g . com
I'm really, really, not sure how they can draw the link to general motivation. Ok, so the animals seemed not motivated after serotonin spiked? Couldn't that possibly just be due to the transient effect alone? Like, once stabilized at higher levels, maybe they would have normal, or even higher motivation. It was that you "shocked" them with it..